Lore talk:Fort Sungard

Split Page?

Is Fort Sungard in the Rift really the same location as the town of Sunguard in the Rift? I posted a more detailed version of the question in a response on the talk page for Heljarchen. This one bugs me more than the other does, yes the names are only slightly different names but they’re also completely opposite in their locations on the map. Also I think this is the only time I’ve seen the word retconned used on a lore page here?--StormySkies (talk) 05:22, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Bump, Minor topic but this makes no sense. The settlement’s was located in The Rift, the Real Barenziah specifically mentions that the town’s location is east to that of Whiterun’s. In Skyrim, Fort Sungard is located in the The Reach which is on the opposite side of the map from the location previously established by both Arena and lorebooks.

The original location of Sunguard is still maintained in Skyrim’s lore. In addition to this while many of Arena’s settlement names are altered in later games, it’s still worth noting that the spelling of the town in the Rift from Arena and The Real Barenziah is spelt SungUard, while the spelling of the fort located in the Reach from Skyrim is spelled Sungard, omitting the letter U. Many places were shifted around the map somewhat between games but this doesn’t add up at all. These can’t be the same location.--StormySkies (talk) 08:58, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Whiterun was on the wrong side of the Throat of the World prior to TES5. As I pointed out on the talk page for Heljarchen, these locations can and do move. That said, we had an entire ESO chapter dedicated to a place called Greymoor which had nothing to do with Fort Greymoor in Whiterun Hold, so it's also possible that the fort was named after a different location. —⁠Legoless (talk) 15:56, 9 October 2023 (UTC)

In Skyrim, many unused towns from Arena were turned into forts, and the accuracy of their location varies. I don't think Bethesda thought of the Lore issues when they did this, (Places like Snowhawk mostly work if we would've been given lore as to how one of Skyrim largest cities 200 years ago simply does not exist anymore, but Sunguard not so much from its major geographical change) but they definitely view this as the same place. While it has rightfully been pointed out that Sunguard in TRB can not be anywhere but The Rift, this seems to change with Rislav and Kjoric. When Sunguard was written in Rislav to be where Kjoric died in battle, it was still in the Rift, yet Skyrim adds lore on Kjoric saying he died defending Falkreath, meaning they've retconned the location West (While in The Reach, Fort Sunguard borders Falkreath and it's entirely possible the battle began in northern Falkreath and pushed north to Sunguard). This gives us one reference that must refer to its Arena appearance, and one that (after retconning) must refer to its Skyrim appearance. Since this was not a new story, but a retcon, it certainly seems that Bethesda forgot to retcon TRB when they threw town names all over the place as forts in Skyrim.

In summary, there is no right answer, as Bethesda did not think this out themselves. They only retconned one of the two appearances of the town in lore, and considering they turned Snowhawk, one of Skyrims largest cities in every game before Skyrim, into a random run down fort without any lore explanation, they clearly did not plan this out themselves. -Stoutt — Unsigned comment by 47.34.120.191 (talk) at 01:08 on 24 October 2023 (UTC)