Lore talk:History

Standardizing General

The General section for history is a total mess right now, and it's unclear what it is even for. Are we using it for events that occur multiple times in history, such as the Wild Hunt, Konunleikar, or Greymarches? If so, why do we also have general concepts relating to events, such as Time Wounds, or Dragonfires, listed? And why are we listing general philosophies or concepts like 'Empire' or 'Way of the Voice', in that case? Neither of these are events, nor are they tied to any specific event that occurs multiple times in history. We already list all three empires separately in their respective eras, and events relating to the philosophy of the greybeards are just normal, historical events from the first era.

To summarize: The general tab makes absolutely no sense as is, we need to figure out what actually belongs in it, if anything. - Jacksol (talk) 01:26, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

The first question in order to reach a resolution is whether those topics fit better under any of the other Lore topic areas listed at Lore:Main Page. If not, is History the correct place for them? If still not, what new topic area do we need to create? --Enodoc (talk) 07:56, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I would really rather not move these articles under Appendices if we can help it. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:10, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Konunleikar should go under Calendar and Time Wound should go under Magic, and there's an argument that Empire could go under Factions, but other than that I think they are probably correct as History topics which don't fit in a particular Era. --Enodoc (talk) 08:33, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I think Time Wounds are fine under History, considering they are holes in the timeline. I don't know what they have to do with magic. —⁠Legoless (talk) 08:38, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Here is my take on this, Konunleikar is an outliner and should go into the Calander section, Purification is part of a guilds history rather then Tamriel history. Those two are the ones I would consider moving or keeping out of it. Dragonfires are important concept that should be in there as not only are they an important concept but they played a major role in the history of the series. Time Wounds, I added that in because the Dragon Break was also part of the general. The thing is Time Wounds and Dragonbreaks both have played major roles in history in some form or another. One time wound was created when Akatosh banished TES's version of a time traveling Terminator out of Elsweyr, but the first major time wound played a huge historical role in the Banishment of Alduin and was a major key in his defeat as it allowed the Last Dragonborn to view the past in order to learn the shout needed to defeat him. So both of those are fine being there because of their role in actual history. I'm actually fine with whatever is decided here but those are my takes on the issue at hand. TheVampKnight (talk) 09:05, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

As time has passed and more and more added, we've not really re-evaluated this page. It has some crossover with Lore:Appendices, but its is messy with things like agreements, events, prophecies, phenomena and factions. It might be better served to categories these properly and include them into Lore:Appendices. Lego, why dont you like that idea? Is it the length of the page? --Jimeee (talk) 09:43, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

I guess the main issue for me is the length of the transcluded {{Lore:Appendices}} list. You can see on some pages already that its length is beginning to cause formatting issues (e.g. Lore:Septim Dynasty). If we can find an alternate home for these pages that's great, but I'm conscious that these topics are not the most "universe-relevant" and would begin to clog up the main Appendices list.

Honestly, keeping the list here under History seems fine to me. I think the discrepancy is having them in the same list as Era-grouped "historical events". Maybe if we had a separate section for "Historical Topics" or something they would seem less out of place? —⁠Legoless (talk) 09:51, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Ok, so if the length of the transcluded list is a fair point, but that can be solved - a webpage layout shouldn't trump better categorisation. We can convert the Appendices sidebar into a bottom footer. This gives us the freedom to categorise other odd lore pages in a way that makes more sense. I believe that will give these pages way more visibility, as currently they are quite niche and hard to find.

There are other odd pages that are not listed and don't quite fit in History, but that would benefit. We can create an Appendices footer to accommodate these:

Empires

• Reman Dynasty
• Akaviri Potentate
• Septim Dynasty
• Mede Dynasty

Law and Politics:

• Guild Act
• Levitation Act
• Armistice
• Coldharbour Compact
• Second Treaty of Stros M'Kai
• Green Pact

Prophecies and Phenomena

• Bloodmoon Prophecy
• Dragon Break
• Dragonfires
• Ritual of the Ancestor Moth
• Time Wound
• Tyranny of the Sun
• Void Nights
• Wild Hunt

Philosophy?

• Way of the Voice

Notable Events?

• Calendar
• Greymarch
• Konunleikar
• Purification

Culture

• Claw-Dances
• Death
• Slavery (bring it back! UESPWiki:Deletion_Review/Lore:Slavery)
• Marriage
• Music
• Names

Other?

• Disease
• Drugs
  • Alcoholic Beverages

--Jimeee (talk) 10:33, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Months in ESO

Not sure where to add this information, but we know of the month ranges for a few ESO DLCs/Chapters. I considered adding them into the big table with all the games, chapters, and dates in it, but wasn't sure how to sort it. Does the latest given date apply to everything in the game, if you can technically start that questline first? Is there implied time passage between questlines? I don't know, hence the talk page. Here's what I've found:

• Rana's Log confirms that the Bal Foyen / Bleakrock Isle storylines of the Ebonheart Pact must take place after Morning Star.
• Delivery Schedule and Manifests confirms that the Bangkorai storyline of the Daggerfall Covenant must take place during or after First Seed.
• Birds of Wrothgar confirms that Orsinium must take place during or after Rain's Hand.
• Brugurikh's Journal confirms that Craglorn must take place during or after Rain's Hand.
• Sir Hughes' Journal confirms that the Stormhaven storyline of the Daggerfall Covenant must take place during or after Rain's Hand.
• Halinjirr's Notes and Halinjirr's dialogue confirm that Morrowind must take place during or after Rain's Hand.
• Diary of a Romance and Enda's dialogue confirm that the Grahtwood storyline of the Aldmeri Dominion must take place after Rain's Hand.
• Gordag's Journal and Mozgosh's dialogue confirm that the Shadowfen storyline of the Ebonheart Pact must take place during or after Second Seed.
• Rinyde's Journal and Rinyde's dialogue confirm that Summerset must take place during or after Midyear.
• Khajiit's Lost Journal and Kala's dialogue confirm that the Reaper's March storyline of the Aldmeri Dominion must take place during or after Midyear.
• Decoded Coin Message confirms that the Rivenspire storyline of the Daggerfall Covenant must take place during or after Last Seed.
• Garnikh's Hunting Log and Chief Tazgol's dialogue confirms that the Betnikh storyline of the Daggerfall Covenant must take place during or after Hearthfire.

Mindtrait0r (talk) 02:58, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Rana's Log and Brugurikh's Journal are the only valid ones in this list. The others don't include a year, and so could theoretically be referring to 581 or earlier. --Enodoc (talk) 23:40, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Going down the list with my justifications, excluding the ones that I do think could be a different year upon reflection, Sir Hughes' Journal is about events that happen concurrently with the questline, i.e. his mental deterioration as a part of the Omen taking hold of his mind. The event he talks about doing at the end of the journal is part of a quest. Halinjiir's Notes were lost to Halinjiir when bandits took over his farm. He says they will make him a starving pauper, implying they took over recently, and player dialogue in the quest reaffirms this, saying "A Khajiit named Halinjirr is growing moon-sugar in Zainsipilu. Here's the proof." This definitely isn't referring to a year ago in my opinion. As for Diary of a Romance, I wrote the wrong date but I do still think it confirms something. The entries end at Rain's Hand, but Enda states he has been gone for two months, meaning the quest must actually take place around Midyear.

Gordag's Journal states he doesn't think his daughter has long left until she dies from her illness, and she is found still ill in-game. Rinyde's Journal states she is soon to be join the Sapiarchs as an assistant, which she is getting ready to be anointed for in-game. Furthermore, Alchemy states she joined the House of Revelries only one year ago, and in Rinyde's Journal she is described as going out to 'clear their mind' which even Rinyde doubts, also stating it's like she's wearing a mask. Khajiit's Lost Journal is written by Yenadar, who, according to Kala, has been gone for many days, which doesn't sound to me like a year. We see the Decoded Coin Message get delivered in-game. Mindtrait0r (talk) 01:50, 12 November 2023 (UTC)