Lore talk:Ka Po' Tun (race)

Misspelling

The name is misspelled. The correct spelling is Ka'Po'Tun. The Imperial Library lists this spelling, as does Gamespot and Neoseeker. --HMSVictory 10:51, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Actually, I've just found out that both spellings are used in different places in the TES universe, so I'll include that in the new page, which has more information and makes this one redundant. --HMSVictory 10:53, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

The only spelling used in the only known book describing them, namely Mysterious Akavir is "Ka Po' Tun"; that spelling is used consistently each of the three times they are mentioned, in both the Oblivion and Morrowind versions of the book. The spelling "Ka'Po'Tun" is never used anywhere in Morrowind, Oblivion, or any of their expansions. Based on Site Policy, we should go with verifiable information from the games, rather than repeating unsourced information from another site that has no apparent basis in the games. And just because two other sites chose to copy a mistake, it doesn't mean that we should propagate the mistake even further.

Furthermore, even if the existing article's name was misspelled, the correct process for dealing with a misspelled article is to move the article to the correct location, thus preserving the page's edit history. Cutting and pasting the contents to a new page and then deleting the contributions of a half-dozen editors is not the correct way to handle the article. --Nephele^Talk 23:23, 17 April 2008 (EDT)

I still fail to see how the following statistics add up to "Ka'Po'Tun" being the more common spelling:

• Total uses of Ka'Po'Tun in MW, BM, TR, OB, SI: 0
• Total uses of Ka Po' Tun in MW, BM, TR, OB, SI: 6

Simply stating in an edit summary that "Ka'Po'Tun" is more common doesn't do anything to change the facts of what is provided in the game. And it also does nothing change the fact that the correct way to deal with an existing article is to improve it, not replace it with a redundant article and delete the first article's entire edit history. --Nephele^Talk 15:09, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Hmm... How about I move all of the information currently in Lore:Ka'Po'Tun to Lore:Ka Po' Tun and just swap the names? That seems like the most sensible option here, as the information in the other article is far superior to this. --HMSVictory^Talk 15:26, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Done! --HMSVictory^Talk 15:30, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes, merging all of the information into a single article does help; arguably it could have been done earlier, instead of creating a redundant article, but better late than never ;)

As for swapping the names, I think it would make more sense to first come to a consensus about the appropriate names. As far as I can tell, this article is correctly named. An article on the Imperial Library is not a verifiable source on how the name should be spelled. All of the information on UESPWiki is derived from the game's books, as is nearly all of the information at the Imperial Library. So the game books should be used to determine the correct spelling. If we start by dismissing the Mysterious Akavir as inaccurate, then we might as well delete this entire article, and every other article related to Akavir on the site, because 90% of the information in all of these articles comes from the Mysterious Akavir. It's the only source we have, so I'd say we have to rely on it until the game developers give us new and/or different information.

Also I'm not exactly sure how you determined that the Imperial Library is a larger site than UESPWiki. While Gamespot and Neoseeker may be larger, it's only because they cover thousands of games; their section on the Elder Scrolls is definitely not comparable to UESPWiki's. Even so, size of the site isn't really relevant in trying to determine what is or is not accurate. There have been mistakes on UESPWiki, in some cases mistakes copied across multiple pages, but simply repeating the information didn't make it true. Instead, people double-checked what happened in the games, and updated the site based upon verifiable and accurate information from the games. --Nephele^Talk 16:00, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

Tosh Raka

The leader of the Ka Po' Tun is Tosh Raka. He is rumored to be a divine being who was the first of his race to succeed at becoming a dragon. (...) Mysterious Akavir claims that the change was indeed physical and that Tosh Raka has all the characteristics of a dragon, with a tiger-like coloring.

I just notice that, after reading 'dragon' and 'divine' in this same paragraph. Tosh Raka looks just like an anagram of Akatosh with 'R' included, doesn't it?

It is well known that the Chief Deity of the Nines Divines is found on almost every religion on Tamriel, but... in Akavir religions, too? Do we have any official sources that indicate that, apart from Mysterious Akavir that do not make it very clear? — Unsigned comment by 189.24.25.59 (talk) at 01:59 on 5 July 2009 (UTC)

It's been hinted that Akavir is a sort of mirror image of Tamriel. The worldview and religion of the Tscaesi is very elven, and in this case the Ka Po Tun have a leader who undergoes a Talos-like apotheosis. The inhabitants of Akavir witnessed the same events as the people of Tamriel, so they should have their own relationships with Akatosh and Lorkhan as the rest of the world.74.65.142.202 15:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)