Lore talk:Martin Septim

Title

Should we call him Emperor in the opening line and in the summary? I didn't want to presume. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 06:49, 28 January 2014 (GMT)

I don't see what it would hurt, Blades' loyalty aside, outside of Cloud Ruler Temple, he's referred to as "Your Majesty" or similar (don't have exact quote on me) by Ocato and the Legionnaires. And, the Elder Council accepted his claim that he was the legal heir to the throne, so small ceremonies (though significant) ceremonies aside, he was effectively the Emperor of Tamriel... For the 10 minutes it took me to get him to his death scene. :p -damon  ^xoxo 17:23, 28 January 2014 (GMT)

I agree, he was effectively the Emperor for a short time, but I'm reticent to acknowledge this because none of the post-Oblivion sources do so. The Infernal City and various Skyrim tidbits just refer to him as "Martin", not "Emperor Martin" or anything like that. The Oblivion Crisis makes a big deal out of him being uncrowned, and its reference to the last Dragonblood Emperor is ambiguous. The author of that book seemed to know all that we do, for our purposes here, and doesn't seem to treat Martin as having been an Emperor. So yes, I would consider him to have been an Emperor, but in the interests of sticking to the source material, we might want to leave it as is... I don't know, really. Minor Edits^{Threats•Evidence} 07:40, 13 February 2014 (GMT)

Yeah, it's an odd one - while he technically was Emperor for a short time, I'm fine with the way it is now. Only two times in Oblivion he is actually called "Emperor" - but that is by the Blades: Don't worry, we'll keep the Emperor Martin safe here. No enemy has ever taken Cloud Ruler from the Blades. and "I am at the Emperor Martin's command.". How history perceives him is cloudy.

Personally, I understand the line "When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls" as referring to Uriel, not Martin. This is because the structure of the previous lines in the prophecy follow the style of Event --> Consequences of said Event.

• Time was reshaped because the Brass Tower walked
• The Red Tower trembled because the Thrice-blessed failed.
• White Tower fell because Dragonborn Ruler lost his throne

In the last line, the White-Gold Tower falling alludes more to the Oblivion Crisis itself, not the Great War/Sack of the White-Gold Tower, which happened much later. The death of Uriel temporarily severed the link between White-Gold Tower and its Stone, the Amulet of Kings. This in turn weakened the barriers of the mortal plane and the Oblivion Crisis was the result. Any thoughts on this? --Jimeee (talk) 11:48, 13 February 2014 (GMT)