Oblivion talk:Souls

True Daedra?

A statement at the bottom suggests that Black souls can only be gotten from NPCs (including vampires), True Daedra, and Dremora. What is meant by the phrase "True Daedra", and what Daedra are there, other than Dremora, which have Black souls? Pretty sure that statement is unnecessary... --TheRealLurlock ^Talk 15:18, 4 December 2006 (EST)

"True Daedra" no more

Sure, took that away. Now it's just "Dremora". There may be other black souls than those, but I don't personally know of any. However, if you do know of any more, feel free to add them. --Lord E ^Talk 21:51, 4 December 2006 (GMT+1h)

Leveled Souls

I've just revised this table to correctly describe how leveled souls work in the game. I'll be slowly working through all the individual creature pages to update them as well, so that everything provides a consistent description.

The previous assumption used when creating all these tables was that the soul level shown in the construction set was the minimum possible soul for that creature; a "+" sign was put next to the soul to indicate that it could be higher than that value. For example "Undead Akaviri Soldier" was listed as "Common+". However, I've been testing this, and it's not correct. "Undead Akaviri Soldiers" can have any soul from petty to grand. The soul level shown for leveled creatures in the construction set is completely irrelevant, and is not used in any way to determine the actual soul level. The parameters that actually matter are the level offset, the minimum level, and the maximum level.

I've tried to explain how the soul strengths work on the main page; hopefully that basically makes sense to everyone. For creatures that only have a limited range of souls, I'm trying to provide that info in the soul column, for example with "<=Lesser", or ">=Greater". For other creatures, there's not really any meaningful value that can be placed in the soul column, so I'm just putting "leveled". And then I'm adopting superscripts to show the exact offset for people who want to work out exactly what level creature they're going to encounter. Hopefully that makes sense to everyone; let me know what you think.

As an aside, I've also tested creature health, and discovered that the level offset is a factor in the health. I've updated all the healths on the Undead page accordingly, and as I work through the rest of the creature pages I'll be fixing those, too.

--Nephele 15:26, 28 January 2007 (EST)

Pumpkin

I have an Xbox 360 so I don't know if the soul is fixed or not but the dog in the back of rock milk cave (nicknamed Pumpkin) seems to have a grand soul-extremly easy to kill in my oppinion, I found this out by accident, don't even know if its a glitch or not... — Unsigned comment by 68.102.228.59 (talk) (comment moved here from main article)

As you can see if you check the page providing details on Pumpkin the dog, Pumpkin's soul is leveled. Therefore most readers will not get a grand soul from killing Pumpkin. And if you're at a high enough level to get a grand soul from Pumpkin, then a huge number of other leveled creatures will also have grand souls. So I don't think it's particularly noteworthy to single out just one (non-respawning) example out of the hundreds of leveled creatures that exist in the game. As it already says in the article, "The individual creature pages provide full details on the souls of every creature that can be encountered." --Nephele^Talk 13:42, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Menrunes Dagon

I read on the 'creatures' page that it is possible to kill menrunes Dagon with certain items, and magicka. Is it possible to SOULTRAP him?--Juz 15:31, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

Not that it particularly matters, But the Soul of Menrunes Dagon would be useful.--Juz 19:53, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

As it says on his page, he doesn't actually have a soul, which is why he doesn't get a mention on this page. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 11:53, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

Imp Grand Souls?

At level 25, do Imps have Grand Souls or not? Not really sure...but I'm pretty sure they don't. Zander 06:09, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Wait, sorry. Checked one of the other comments on the page, now I understand. Zander 06:10, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Okay, sounds like you have it, but Imps have either petty or lesser souls - never anything more powerful. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 06:17, 15 October 2008 (EDT)

Soul Gem Revisions

In case anyone is trying to make sense of why I revamped this page yet again....

The single biggest problem with the earlier edits moving the Soul Gem section from the Enchanting article to the Souls article was that the majority of the soul gem links on the site still linked to the Enchanting article. Moving the information didn't seem helpful to most readers if those readers were still going to be looking in the old location (and a quick look at Recent Changes shows just how many dozens of articles needed to be revised to fix the links). But updating all of the links to point to the Souls article didn't seem to make much sense, because the Souls article isn't fundamentally any more related to Soul Gems than Enchanting had been. So instead I opted to just move the information to its own article, and then update all of the soul-gem-related links to point to that article. I incorporated the soul gem statistics (from the Miscellaneous Items page) so that all of the soul gem information would be in a single place. That table effectively made the recently added Item Codes table obsolete, so it disappeared in the move.

In the process, I realized that half of the information wasn't even specifically related to soul gems: it was about how to use the Soul Trap spell to fill soul gems. That information was all moved to the Soul Trap page. Hopefully that now means that all of the information about soul gems and soul trapping is now provided on the most relevant article -- and that the links all point to the appropriate locations, too. --Nephele^Talk 02:30, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

No, it really makes sense. Thanks for the work! I wasn't happy with one of the recent rearrangements of content, especially as it broke alot of links. I did change the section name back, but it wasn't the ideal solution. --Timenn < talk > 04:49, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

Summon

Can I summon trapped souls? 85.157.60.237 20:25, 27 December 2008 (EST)

I don't know what you mean by that... if you mean can you trap the souls of summoned creatures, the answer is yes. –Rpeh^{•T•C•E•} 14:31, 31 December 2008 (EST)

I think he was asking if he could trap creatures souls and then summon them later using the soul gem. The answer to that would be no.Kevindrosario 13:40, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Black Souls

When you trap an NPC soul, it says Soul Level: Grand on the soul gem. So where does the site get black souls from? Is it what they are classified as in the construction set?Kevindrosario 13:34, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Black Souls refers to the Black Soul Gems. The game identifies them as Grand as a way of giving the value of the soul. Black Souls have the same strength with enchanting as Grand souls. We explicitely name the souls Black as it may not always be clear that some enemies are NPCs instead of Creatures. --Timenn-<talk> 15:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Souls by Strength?

In the section Souls by Strength it states "These lists only include creatures with fixed soul strengths." Yet some of them are listed in the table as being leveled. These are Deranged Zombie (under Greater), Goblin Shaman (under Greater), Goblin Warlord (under Grand), Kalperklan Troll (under Grand), and Savage Ogre (under Grand). Is this an error or have I missed something? It's probably the latter but it's got me quite confused.

Also, in the table, I noticed that Gloom Wraith has a level offset of L:-3 next to the word Grand. From the Gloom Wraith page it looks like they always have Grand souls (unless it's Gable the Traitor but his soul seems to have an offset of L:+1). If a Gloom Wraith does always have a Grand soul then what does the L:-3 indicate? --Foubister 15:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

For the "Souls by Strength" section, I think you're right. These creatures don't seem to belong here. Just to be safe, I think we should wait the rest of the day to give someone with a CS time to possibly shed some light on the discrepency, rather than eroneously changing accurate information. As for the Gloom Wraiths, the superscript refers to enemy wraiths (those that you would find in a dungeon), while the type that always has Grand souls is only available through the Summon Gloom Wraith spell. Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs,E-mail)} 15:39, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't agree with you more on the editing bit. I'm so new to wiki editing that my stomach does flip-flops when I just add a little note to a page. :) As for the Gloom Wraiths, thanks! That clears that up for me. --Foubister 20:55, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

No problem :) If you have any questions about editing, you're more than welcome to ask myself or any other editor for advice. I'd personally recommend the mentors page for a more involved explanation, but we're all happy to help. Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs,E-mail)} 21:04, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

(Outdent)Since there was no dissent from anyone, I removed the leveled souls from the list. While you would usually be a high enough level to generate the listed soul by the time you start running into these creatures under normal circumstances, if someone were to use the console to create a creature for soul trapping, they would be greatly dissapointed if using the old list. Dlarsh^{(Talk,Contribs,E-mail)} 01:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)