UESPWiki:Podcast/2 09

LGBTQ+ Representation in the Elder Scrolls Join your host Pylawn with guests AKB, baratron, and special guests Dro, and Tori Schafer - Former narrative designer from the Elder Scrolls Online. This is a special Pride themed episode where we discuss LGBTQ+ representation in the Elder Scrolls games and the impacts of choices by the developers make on the community.

Twitch: VOD • Youtube: VOD • Anchor: Audio

Show Notes

Roster

Host:

• Pylawn

Guests:

• AKB
• baratron
• Tori Schafer
• Dro

News

UESP:

• • Statement on the Stream Team events from the weekend
    • Unfortunately we have to start this week with some news that I wish we didn’t have to. Over the weekend some major issues came to light within members of the ESO Stream Team. I am sure most people listening are aware of what happened, but in case you are not aware, Kyle Dempster was involved in an issue with harassment of other members of the community, and releasing a list of people involved with personal and private information.
    • Since then, ZOS has removed Kyle from the Stream Team and has contacted anyone whose private information may have been leaked. If you were not contacted, you do not have to worry about your information being posted.
    • We want to make it clear that here at the UESP, we do not condone harassment or doxxing in any form. The ESO community has always been a family, and these kinds of attacks don’t just hurt those implicated, but everyone who works on, or plays these games. We will be distancing ourselves from this Streamer personally and professionally in the future.
  • Graph Extension on the wiki. More info here.
  • AKB & Kiz streams have been cancelled because Kiz’s microphone has broken and sounds absolutely terrible. But there are Avron streams this week instead, as well as AKB solo streams.

ESO:

• Patch Notes 6.0.8 PC
  • https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/535241/pc-mac-patch-notes-v6-0-8
  • Stadia Performance fixes
  • Bug Fixes, mostly for Antiquities.
  • They have also fixed a “framerate stutter” that could occur when updating skill experience or rank. This was a major source of lag especially in Trials, since it could occur every time you killed a monster.
  • Harrowstorms in Western Skyrim and Blackreach will now respawn much more quickly, and the Harrowstorm daily quest now requires only one Harrowstorm to be completed. It also awards more gold and experience for completion.
  • OMG THEY ADDED NEW WAYSHRINES?????
    • This is unprecedented in the history of the game. To my knowledge, the only wayshrine change that has ever been made to an existing zone was when the Mournhold wayshrine was moved from the island in the middle of the lake to inside the city, when Guild Traders were added. You can still see the old position in one of the Deshaan loading screens. --baratron

• Midyear Mayhem
  • https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58421
  • Midyear Mayhem will continue until Tuesday, July 7 at 10:00AM EDT
  • 2 x two tickets per day
    • Two tickets for completing any Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds daily quest
    • Two tickets for completing any Imperial City district daily quests
  • The Event Ticket timer resets at 1:00AM EDT each morning.
  • Extra campaigns have been opened to make it easier to get into Cyrodiil, but the Morihaus campaign on PC-NA and EU was closed today due to there being “issues with some missing gates”.
    • Arrius Keep had no front door!

• Free Infernium Dwarven Spiderling pet if you opt into marketing emails and verify your email address. It’s a Dwemer spider - ON FIRE!
  • https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58415
  • If you’re in the EU, you’ll receive an email with a verification link which you need to click. If you’re in the US, it appears to just happen automatically.
  • You must do this by July 1 at 2:59AM EDT (06:59 GMT).

• The Greymoor Home Decorating Contest - https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/58351 -  As mentioned last week, this runs until July 3rd at 11:59 PM EDT.  Submit your entry via the form attached to the article: upload a screenshot for one of two categories (you can enter once for each): “A Home Fit for a Vampire” or “Nord Homestead”. 1 Grand prize and 2 runners up per category.  Prizes include Greymoor Digital Collector’s Edition, Crowns, and a music box of your choice; the grand prize winners also get a house of their choice and additional furnishings.

Legends:

• New Monthly Card https://legends.bethesda.net/en/article/1Fm4JlrPA7dVVwyqykngUd/the-elder-scrolls-legends-june-2020-monthly-reward-card
  • Dragonfire Wizard, 3 Cost Imperial in Mage, 2 Power 3 Health
  • At the end of your turn, adds a flame. Last Gasp, get Flame Lash, a 1 cost action that does damage equal to the number of flames.
• Grand Melee over the weekend - Fighters Guild cardback for participation, Premium Xanmeer cardback for top 1000.

Call to Arms:

• Devblog 5 https://www.modiphius.net/blogs/news/elder-scrolls-development-blog-5-i-am-sworn-to-carry-your-burdens
• We will cover this more next week!

Other:

• Elder Scrolls games on sale on Steam
  • https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/15347/Elder_Scrolls_Summer_Bundle/

Supporters

Patreon:

• Melissa
• David Prestosa

Twitch Subs:

• Realredwolf49

iTunes:

Wiki:

• DCSG for working on the new graph extension and already creating amazing graphs (such as https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Blades:Wights)

New UESP Emperors:

• @Half-Troll, @DrackusVolar, @Deandra and @RoyalTonberry from the UESP Guild on PC-NA have already been Emperor.
• During Midyear Mayhem the following have also been crowned:
  • @AltariaTheDragon (PC-NA)
  • @Avron (PC-NA)
  • @Jonlaw (PC-NA)
  • @Sedrethi (PC-NA)
  • @Tedfurd (PC-NA)
  • @naga007 (Xbox-NA)

Scholarly Pursuits

I will ask our guests what they have been working on in the world of TES! This can be game play, wiki work, Discord things, anything relevant to UESP/TES that you’ve been working on the past couple weeks / when you were last on the show.

• Pylawn
  • Back to work!
  • Finally have time for some video editing work
    • Stay tuned for that
  • Still grinding out my antiquities
  • I’m letting Twitter rename my Main ESO Character
    • But don’t all your characters need to be called “Pylawn”? -- baratron
• AKB
  • I did a good number of things in ESO.
  • I apparently destroyed like a million gold worth of items.
• baratron
  • It was my birthday last week and I had two online parties with different groups of friends.
  • Levelled my Stamina Warden on PC-EU from Level 38 to 50 to try to get him Trial-ready. Still need to get his Fighters Guild to Rank 10, so I foresee more dolmens in my future, but NOT the Alik’r Desert dolmen grind. Goodness, that is boring.
  • Midyear Mayhem - guild group, picked up and did all six Imperial City daily quests but only handed in the first one. IMPORTANT TIME-SAVING TIP!! Now I can get my two tickets for IC quests per day without having to worry about finding a group.
  • Did some Battlegrounds. I think Crazy King is my favourite Battleground mode but unfortunately, most of the Random Battlegrounds you get into are Deathmatch, which I am bad at and hate.
• Dro’Craddish
• Tori

Topic: LGBTQ+ Representation in TES

• Shoutout to Lady Nerevar for compiling this great list:
  • https://www.imperial-library.info/content/lgbtq-tamriel

Daggerfall

• It is possible for NPCs to have same-sex spouses due to random quest generation.
• Worshipers of Azura are her lovers regardless of gender.

Battlespire

• The Dark Seducers Jaciel Morgen and Deyanira Katrece are in a same-sex relationship. While this is only heavily implied in the game itself, the official Elder Scrolls website would confirm they were lovers for the tenth anniversary of the franchise.

Morrowind

• Vivec is a really interesting example here of the writers opening up more to LGBTQ+ themes.
• Vivec is explicitly both intersex and genderfluid, in a confusing godly way.
  • He was born male but was "reborn" to be female as well, therefore has both male and female organs and is able to give birth to children.
  • He does not identify himself as having a fixed gender, despite using the pronoun “he”.
    • I do wonder whether, if Morrowind had been written in 2020, Vivec would use a non-binary pronoun such as singular “they” or “zie” -- baratron
  • He is also pansexual - not limited in choice of sexual or romantic partners with regard to biological sex, gender, or gender identity.
    • Explaining the exact meaning of the term “pansexual” and how it differs from “bisexual” would take longer than the show time - it is a topic of much debate among queer people, especially those who do identify as bi or pan.
    • “Bisexual” tends to mean “attracted to multiple genders” whereas “Pansexual” tends to mean “attracted to all/any gender”, but seriously we do not want to even try to explain this!! -- baratron
  • Sotha Sil in ESO: Clockwork City explains Vivec’s Godhood as: “Vivec craves radical freedom - the death of all limits and restrictions. He wishes to be all things at all times. Every race, every gender, every hero, both divine and finite... but in the end, he can only be Vivec."
• In Morrowind, we get our first look at the Argonian views on sex / gender.
  • The in game descriptions state the sexes of argonians as “male phase” or “female phase”.

Oblivion

• The lorebook Ahzirr Trajijazaeri encourages the reader to "find a wanton lass or a frisky lad, or several, in whatever combination your wise loins direct."
• Three Argonian characters have voice actors of a different gender to their pronouns. These are City-Swimmer in Bravil, Deetsan in Cheydinhal, and Mach-Na in Cheydinhal. Are these characters bugged, or an attempt at transgender representation? It’s most likely the former, a dialogue error caused by them not checking a character’s gender beforehand, or changing it later in development. There’s a lot of similar dialogue errors in Oblivion.
• Viranus Donton and Eduard Hodge from the Fighters Guild main questline were in a relationship. Their relationship is alluded to so vaguely that people have argued they were only good friends. You only find out about their relationship after they are both dead, but at least you do get to meet them as people before they die.
  • Gay characters dying young and tragically is a particularly offensive trope to LGBT+ people. See BuryYourGays on TV Tropes.
  • It implies that LGBT+ characters are more expendable than their heteronormative counterparts.
  • It’s even more offensive when killing off a queer character is removing the only positive representation within the narrative. These two are literally the only characters in base game Oblivion who show any LGBT+ representation at all.
• Dumag Gro-Bonk in the Shivering Isles expansion calls himself the “Best and prettiest smith in town”. His dialogue treats female characters as equals but is flirtatious towards male characters.

Skyrim

• THIS GAME MAKES ME MAD -- baratron
• Compared to other decade-old games, Skyrim's a lot more generous in terms of what it allows the player. The same ~60 characters are available for marriage, regardless of the gender or race of the character you're playing. And if they have a high enough relationship level with you, they will always say yes. Opposite-sex and same-sex relationships are treated absolutely identically.
• However, the only NPCs who talk about being romantically involved are characters in opposite-sex relationships.
  • One thing to consider is that we don't know the sexuality of anyone in the game for certain. People in happy, loving, opposite-sex relationships might identify as bi- or pansexual rather than heterosexual.
• But there are no obvious same-sex NPC couples in base game Skyrim, Dawnguard, or Hearthfire.
• There is one same-sex couple in Dragonborn, and they’re both dead. Their names are Bjornolfr and Hrodulf, and they don’t even get the dignity of a quest!
  • It’s a tragedy which you only piece together if you have enough interest to do so. Bjornolfr is found dead in a tunnel under Hrodulf’s house, killed by bandits. Hrodulf himself is dead on the ground a little way south of his house -  by his boat with all his worldly possessions scattered around. These include an Amulet of Mara and a gold diamond ring.
  • And you can't even reunite the lovers in death, even though you can pick up corpses and carry them, because you can't carry them through doors!
  • baratron has been ranting about this since 2013 and is unlikely to stop any time soon.

ESO

• Such an improvement from Skyrim! Even minor characters are in same-sex relationships, or talk openly about same-sex attraction, e.g.
  • Bameli the Pure in Ebonheart prefers “sheaths” over “swords.”
  • Zara in the Thizzrini Arena flirts with female players.
  • Pehrash in Abah’s Landing "likes to watch half-naked men dance."
  • Belkarth stall owners Tirlarnar Frozenfox and Stodrir Frozenfox are wives.
  • Overseer Shiralas in Vivec City is married to Varona Beloren.
  • Senchal refugees Azelbar and Zayhba are in a relationship and have multiple children.

• Several characters flirt with the player regardless of gender:
  • these include minor characters Amil the Deft and Goveled Herendas in the Ebony Flask, Flicks-His-Tongue in Windhelm Outlaws Refuge, Lupius in the Baandari Trading Post
  • and major characters Jakarn who appears throughout the Daggerfall Covenant questline, and Naryu Virian of the Morag Tong.
    • However, Jakarn is not necessarily the greatest example of bisexual representation, since although he flirts with anyone, he only seems to be interested in women. In particular, he strings along/uses Majoll and leaves him heartbroken.

• You cannot marry NPCs, only other human players, but the quest Forever Hold Your Peace lets you invite either a male or female date to a noble wedding, regardless of the gender of your character.
  • You can also choose whichever fancy clothing you like - suit or dress.

• Several quests involving rescue of a missing partner involve same-sex couples, e.g.
  • Captain Linwen and Faenir at the Cave of Broken Sails, in Grahtwood.
  • Sind and Tand at Hadran’s Caravan, in Reaper’s March.
  • Kasa-jeen and Honei at The Mists in Murkmire.
  • Magreta and Nelfthea at Frozen Coast in Western Skyrim.
  • Eepa Snow-Hair in Windhelm has lost her partner, Berta Fairskin, but there isn’t an associated quest. You do however find Berta’s Last Will and Testament in a nearby delve, The Frigid Grotto.
  • Melleron and Tarazur at The Stitches in Northern Elsweyr haven’t lost each other, but instead Melleron’s keg of sweet rotmeth brew.
• In the Upper Craglorn quest line, Little Leaf appears to be in love with Regent Cassipia. It’s unclear whether they are a couple, or whether they have more of a student-senpai type relationship, where a younger girl has a crush on her older mentor.
• In “Murder in Lillandril”, Summerset, Emile Oncent claims to be guilty of the murder of his partner Haladan. The truth turns out to be more complicated.
• In “Long Journey Home” in Morthal, Western Skyrim, Freiwen and Maxten Favrete are former partners.

• Bisexual representation comes from Deechee-Noo in Wrothgar, who is dating (or sleeping with) Nednor, Rasna, and Telarnel; and Arlie Edrald in Rivenspire, who is in love with both her male suitor, Fredrick, and her female maid, Dulkhi. One possible ending to the quest implies that they will have a polyamorous relationship. “Why settle for one lover for the rest of my life? We're living in the Second Era, for Mara's sake! Times are changing and a woman can do as she pleases!”
  • The fact that both characters are either polyamorous or in a love triangle shows how difficult it is to demonstrate that a character is bisexual or pansexual in a story as short as a typical quest. Obviously, not all bisexuals have multiple relationships on the go!
  • It’s much easier to write about bisexuals over the course of a novel-length story, where a person might have relationships with different genders over time, or talk about their past.
• More interestingly, the gender of the Silvenar depends on the predominant gender of the Bosmeri people, but the Green Lady is always a woman. Regardless of the Silvenar's gender, the two of them are always married.
• Trans representation in the base game is limited to Snaehild, who uses a male body mesh in game, but wears a dress, is referred to with female pronouns, is marked female in the data files, and is called a "bearded lady" by the leader of the performer's troupe. It is unclear whether she is trans or if the male body mesh is used solely to be able to give her a beard.
• Trans representation is improved dramatically in Summerset with Alchemy, and in Murkmire with Chal-Maht and Kud-Nakal.
• Asexual representation comes from Percius Loche in Hew’s Bane.
  • I once served Magnifica Falorah. I confess she became infatuated. But I could not possibly return her feelings."
  • Were you in love with someone else?
  • "No, and there never will be. Needle, thread, and bolts of cloth are more fulfilling than time spent with any person.
• Personally (Pylawn) I think ESO has done a much better job at representing just the human side of characters

Important LGBT+ Quests!

• “A Change of Heart” in Rivenspire, requires Arlie Edrald to choose between her male suitor, Fredrick, and her female maid, Dulkhi. She can also choose both or neither.
• “Freedom’s Chains” in Kerbol’s Hollow, a.k.a. The Gay Werewolf quest, features husbands Draven Leonciele and Renoit Leonciele.
• “The Flower of Youth” near Greenheart, a.k.a. The Gay Bosmer quest, features elderly husbands Hartmin and Mirilir, and will make you cry BUCKETS.
• “A Faded Flower” in Hew’s Bane reunites former girlfriends Velsa and Narahni.
• “Manor of Masques” in Summerset features a trans woman, Alchemy, and her sister. Minor characters include wives Allegro and Adagio.
• “Frog Totem Turnaround” in Lilmoth has two trans characters, Chal-Maht and Kud-Nakal.

New Lorebooks!

• The Lorebook Freedom's Price describes the relationship between two women, Makes-Many-Waves and Sendrasa Llarys.

The Lorebook A Grand Transformation shows how transitioning between sexes and genders is common for Argonians.