User talk:Legoless/Arc 2011a

This is an archive of previous comments on my talk page. Please do not post a message here - use this link to go to the active page instead.

Join the discussion

On The Infernal City we started a discussion on the addition of material from the book to game pages. You can join if you want, but otherwise in about a day or so we are going to remove all infernal city references on the game pages. You may not care and just added the Sardarvar leed thing because Water's Edge had it, and if thats the case you dont have to leave a message, but if you want your edit to stay leave your reasoning on the talk page. Thanks!--Catmaniac66 18:29, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying me. I don't have any objections to creating lore pages. I've responded to the matter on the talk page. Legoless 18:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

Spelling

Hey there! I'm pretty sure you don't have to go through all the pages doing the worshipper-thing. Whenever he is ready, rpeh will launch his bot and all corrections will be done in a matter of seconds. Just saying! :) --Krusty 11:16, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I gave up after seeing the sheer amount of them. Legoless 11:17, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Sorry - I just noticed this. Fixing spelling with a bot is problematic at best. There's no easy way to distinguish between a spelling used in an in-game source, and a spelling added by a user.

Since you've looked into this, please can I suggest you bring the topic up on the Admin Noticeboard? If there are 1000 cases of the wrong spelling then we need to come up with a way of keeping them of Recent Changes. If it's, say, 100, then there's no problem. We may want to give you temporary Bot status, or look again at whether this task should be performed by an actual bot. Either way - it merits further discussion. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:38, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Years

This was a useful addition, but can I ask that if you make other such additions, you use the {{Year}} template? The first advantage is that it'll make life easier for you to add links to the relevant Year. The other advantage is that if we decide to split up the Eras at some point, it becomes really easy if there's one template that controls links to the pages. Please, please keep helping out on the Lore pages though! rpeh •T•C•E• 21:41, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Sure thing. I was also wondering if I should create new lore pages for small things like that, as that's what most of the other faction entries are doing. Legoless 22:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Quotes

Quotes should be in italics, and have their source mentioned. Lacking those, a sic tag is not appropriate. --Brf 19:49, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

This section either needs to be changed into a direct quote, or removed. Copying content directly from other sites is not allowed. --Brf 20:06, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

That background information contains important lore directly from Bethesda, which isn't available in-game. See here for a discussion about its use. I'll try to make it more quote-like but if you feel you can improve it yourself, by all means. Legoless 20:19, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes. I read that topic. Rpeh said you needed to mention the source. Otherwise it is not clear that it is being quoted from another work. What I would do, as minimum, is put in a reference tag on the Background header. --Brf 20:23, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Your new reference works even better. --Brf 20:24, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

(←) I think we should have either the text or the reference separate, e.g. surrounded by a box or something. While the square brackets serve to distinguish it from the rest of the article, beside some of the text already in italics it blends in a bit. What are your thoughts on this? Legoless 20:40, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

I can see what you mean by "blending" on that Orrery page, but I think the brackets are offsetting it from the text OK. At least that is my opinion. --Brf 20:44, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

For fear of upsetting the wiki's "usual format" I think I'll leave it that way too. Hopefully a sub-heading guru will come along and fix it at some stage. Legoless 20:51, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Cookie!!!

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: Not sure if you are done yet, but good job so far on changing worshiper to worshipper, it's the small things like this that make this wiki so great! --AKB Talk 19:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Its changing pointless things like this that make the internet so great! :þ --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 19:57, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm not finished yet, but according to Google I'm over halfway there. Legoless 20:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

I've been marking most of them patrolled as I see them. Who cares about school? I mean, I'm in study hall as far as you know...Anyway, looks good. --DKong27 ^{Talk Cont} 20:10, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Never EVER...

...reveal that you have Dawnstar! That will instantly cause me to link you to this page! :D --Krusty 21:50, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

My cover is blown! D: Jokes aside, I'd love to help out with the pages once I get the game up and running. At the moment I run it on an emulator which can't save, but whenever I get a chance I'll try to install it to my phone. The only reason I added that endgame message is because it's one I'm faced with a lot, seeing as the most I can do is mess around with the game. :P Legoless 22:17, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Ah, sorry, I thought you'd figured out that save problem of yours. Once again, if you ever get it to work just let me know - making full pages from a cell phone game is..."different"! :) --Krusty 22:28, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Questions

You've been doing some really good work recently, and there's a cookie with your name on it ready for delivery some time soon. There's just one thing I'd like to mention. You've got into a habit of asking if it's okay to do things rather than just doing them. That's great if you're asking: "I'd like to (do something totally new)" or "This has already been discussed but I'd like to change it anyway" but for adding content, or making corrections or clarifications to existing content, you're better off just making the change, possibly with a comment on the talk page explaining it. If you really feel you've got to ask, use the form "If nobody replies within a week I'll go ahead", which gives ample time for anybody to object.

My reason for bringing this up is that I haven't had the time to check everything on talk pages recently, and judging by the patrol log other people have had a similar problem. I don't want any of your suggestions to be skipped simply because people were too busy to reply to a talk page topic.

You've gone well beyond the point where you need regular help on editing so my last piece of advice is this: trust yourself. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:11, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Sure. I'm always a bit skittish about deleting things, so I'd usually like to discuss any changes as sometimes I'd be debating it even with myself. But you're right, it can always be reverted or improved afterwards. I'll try to do so more often. Legoless 21:29, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

In fact...

You have been given a cookie! Your dedication and diligence to the wiki has not gone unnoticed. A user has seen the progress you've made, and has given you a cookie because of it. Good work! The user had the following to say: I started writing my previous message before I saw your rather good image (although I personally hate upper case file extensions!) You've been doing some great work on the site and a cookie is the least you deserve to satisfy your appetite! rpeh •T•C•E• 21:16, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! :) The picture has been sitting on my desktop for a while now, as MS Paint can't make transparent backgrounds. I should have checked the weapons page though - they're all just coloured in brown! I'm not too fond of uppercase extensions either, personally. It was mostly because the original was uppercase, and I just edited that once I figured out why I couldn't replace it. Legoless 21:29, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Revert

You honestly think a 3000 character treatise on Abomb belongs on the page for Dagon Shrine‎? --Brf 18:21, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

As I said, it looks like the original poster has the glitch themselves. The anon's contribution is completely relevant to the discussion, if a bit long-winded. I don't see why it's necessary to remove it. Legoless 18:24, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

You had already identified the problem. There is no need to put a big explanation like that on every complaint. Your link should have been enough. Is there not a tips page that explains how to avoid this problem? It should be linked to that, rather than putting such a misplaced post. That talk page is supposed to be about the topic page, not the users' general game bugs. --Brf 18:28, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Fine, that's a valid reason. I was just put off by the 'forumlike post' comment. Legoless 18:32, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Handbills

We've already got all the text of the handbills on the Notes page. Perhaps it would be better to link to that rather than duplicating the text on each store's page? rpeh •T•C•E• 18:16, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I thought it would have been useful to have the text on the related shops' pages, so as to provide a bit more background. I'm also not sure how to link to a specific handbill. Legoless 18:19, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

The formid allows us to create a unique reference, so for instance this links to the Lelle's Quality Merchandise bill. I'm not hugely bothered one way or the other, but it's generally a good idea to reduce duplication of information whenever possible. In this case, it's not hugely important and the text is unlikely to be edited so the duplication doesn't matter as much. rpeh •T•C•E• 18:23, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

So will I go back and link to the appropriate handbills from each page? And if so, will I leave the quoted text or should I remove it? Legoless 18:54, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh I think it's a very good idea to mention the handbills somehow so either leaving the text or including a link is definitely the thing to do. My slight preference is to link to the Notes page rather than duplicating the text, but it's only a minor thing. Maybe one or two others will have some thoughts. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:04, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

While I think it is a good idea to include the advertising handbills on the store pages, I’m a bit split on how to do it. If you add links only, the information could end up a bit clumsy and easy-to-overlook in the layout department; however, copy/pasting the text seems a bit redundant giving the Notes page that even adds the locations of the Handbills. All things considered, I’ll vote for the latter, but with a different header than “Notes” – maybe “Handbills”? ;) --Krusty 19:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll sleep on it and see what I can come up with. I can understand the 'Handbills' section for places like the Fo'c's'le which have multiple handbills, but for places where the handbill doesn't exist in-game (e.g. A Warlock's Luck) I think the Notes section is more correct. But that might raise problems with page symmetry. Agh! Legoless 22:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Firemoth

But since the Nerevarine led the party shouldn't he be mentioned?Kinvalor75 18:05, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't feel it's essential to mention him on the lore page. After all, we don't name the other adventurers or the legionnaire who hired them. Heroes are already used very generally when talking about lore, and I think the "band of adventurers" concept is the perfect excuse to exclude the player character from the history. However, if you'd like the community's opinion on it go ahead and start up a talk page on the article. Legoless 18:11, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I just thought that the neravarine would be of some sort of worthwhile mention. Youre right its good the way it is right now. Kinvalor75 18:14, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Book references

Once again, thanks for the fantastic work you're doing on improving the Lore pages - it's great to see somebody else taking an interest in this oft-neglected namespace! Just one little request: when adding a reference to a book, please can you use the {{Cite book}} template? It makes sure all refs use the same format, and does things like automatically including the author and date if available. This way, we can make sure all our references look similar. Keep going though - that Suran ref was a great find! rpeh •T•C•E• 18:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

My apologies. I tried the 'Cite book' template at first, but the genealogy doesn't have a lore page and I wasn't aware of the namespace parameter at the time. Thanks for cleaning it up. Legoless 18:58, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

It's a fair point. I've often created Lore versions of books rather than using the ns param, and that's always an option. I usually create a Lore version if the document contains critical information that's available nowhere else - and that's arguably true in this case. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:04, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

One other point (Sorry! I'm not trying to hassle you but these refs can be tricky things!) If a cite appears more than once, give it a name and use that name in later cites. That sentence makes absolutely no sense, but you can see what I mean with this diff. There was already a link to Cleansing of the Fane, and all I had to do was re-use that one instead of creating a new one. Having two separate refs means the same book appears in the reflist twice. I'll stop bugging you now :) rpeh •T•C•E• 19:28, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Oops! I hadn't checked to see if it had already been used. In any case, I was trying to figure out those variable-using refs for another article. It seems like I was just missing a forward slash... Legoless 19:37, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion Page

Hello, I was just wondering if there was a suggestion page on this wiki. You can repy at my Talk Page. Thanks,

Savlen Maros 22:33, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

I've left a reply. Legoless 22:42, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Beat me to it!

I knew I should have uploaded the images before reading the article :) rpeh •T•C•E• 14:50, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, at least you got one of them. :P Legoless 15:11, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't..

It be Jygallag (sorry for spelling) because you don't find out till the end that it is Sheogorath ? Also in a way they are the same "mind" , but in another way they are totally different. Aren't they ? JackTurbo95 20:42, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

There's no need to go into that much detail. Sheogorath becomes Jyggalag, Jyggalag battles Hero. "A" Daedric Prince just sounds vague. Legoless 20:51, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Two More Covers

For completeness, I uploaded this and this. I think that's all the OB ones. I don't own any of the Morrowind guides so I don't know how many of those there are. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:06, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Morrowind! I completely forgot. I only found vanilla and GotY editions, but there may be more. I'll go upload them. Legoless 12:18, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Well-deserved

You have been given a plateful of cookies! You've been doing so much work on the wiki lately you must be getting hungry. Keep it up! rpeh •T•C•E• 14:00, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! A combination of the Easter holidays and a bad cold have ensured that I remain glued to my monitor twelve hours a day. :P Legoless 14:06, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Worshiper vs. Worshipper

Both spellings are valid, and the double "p" variant is primarily British. The UESP Style Guide prefers Americanized spelling if there is a discrepency. Just for future reference. Dlarsh^(T,C) 01:06, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey Dlarsh, sorry about the confusion. I was in the middle of posting on your talk page. The double P spelling was decided on as wiki standard a few months back. You can see the discussion here, as well as the hard-earned cookie I received for going through and fixing them all above. I've therefore undone your revert. Legoless 01:09, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

LOL. I checked everything but the Spelling talk page (and completely missed the Worshiper/Worshipper note in the section on specific words) to see if I missed something. The discussion seemed to be veering towards treating it like dialog/dialogue and letting it pass either way, but since you've already been making the changes with the support of the rest of the community, I see no reason to complain about it now. Carry on with my appologies :) Dlarsh^(T,C) 01:18, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Unneeded capitalization

I was trying to make the wiki consistent in regards to how the region is referred to. The majority of pages seemed to use "Sheogorad Region" (usually on ingredient pages or location lists, but also in regular text), so that's what I went with. Be careful if you want to revert more, since I often included more substantive edits. Minor Edits 11:35, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

The capitalised 'Region' is usually used in context with the game. However, the lore page is called simply 'Sheogorad', so I felt the region wasn't a part of the title and thus didn't need a capital letter. See Lore:Molag Amur, Lore:Grazelands and Lore:Firemoth for a few examples of what the rest of the lore pages do. If you want the community's opinion, feel free to ask on the article's talk page. Legoless 11:44, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

I do agree now that capitalizing "region" in proper names is wrong, but I want to get a firm consensus on it here.Minor Edits 03:39, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

A task, perhaps?

Hey Legoless! We just finished this, so I see no reason not to move on to something completely different; and I hope you will help me out, at least in the first stages. It is about CAMPS. On this page, you can see the amount of unfinished campsites we have, and to be honest, these pages are more or less horrible as of now. I put one of the best SI-camps (Blood Island Camp) and one of the worst OB-camps (Trossan Camp) into my Sandbox for inspiration.

The Shivering Isles-one is rather good but seems to be incomplete; First of all, I couldn’t find any Balliwogs around – but I found plenty of flora not mentioned. I was wondering if you could double-check this page in the CS and just slap your discoveries on there? For the OB-page, that simply sucks – so, again, with the SI one as inspiration, if you could look up all the info you can gather for that camp. Now, remember that this is a very early attempt to make a consistent design for camps – so all your suggestions on relevant info is most welcome; should we have a map (like the exterior maps for Dungeons), how to list surrounding flora and wildlife? All that stuff. I hope you can find the time to look into this. Thanks in advance! --Krusty 23:01, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

This looks fun. I've added all info of any significance to the Trossan Camp part in your sandbox. Number of bandits/beds/containers, detailed description of the camp's location, any nearby plants. Unless we want to list off every type of rock found in the cell, I really don't know how else the camp article could be improved further. Blood Island Camp happens to be one of the more interesting campsites, so that standard probably couldn't be achieved for the mundane "bedroll + bandit" camping technique native to Cyrodiil. However, I believe that bringing all camp pages up to par with my new Trossan Camp will be good enough. Maybe we should bring this discussion over to your sandbox. Legoless 23:59, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Hey again! Brilliant that you want to participate and help make these “overlooked” pages better – I tend to get a bit annoyed when I look at the empty camp pages, mostly because it is my preferred choice for sleeping and storage in the game (maybe my own quiet roleplaying idea?), and I can’t be the only one. What you did with the Trossan Camp is perfect IMO, and, based on that, I compiled a list of stuff that all the camp pages should include:

• The usual header with short location info
• More detailed location description and a bit of information on the camp (e.g. insignificant)
• A bit of exotic rambling describing the location and environment, mixed with number of bedrolls, tents and a “hearty” description of the camp itself, including fireplaces and other oddities (no rocks included though..)
• Information on containers, what they contain and if the respawn or not. Here, it is really important to mention if the inhabitants of the camp will pick up your items (e.g. food)
• Finally, I suggest a list (a la the dungeon pages) with info on flora near the camp (e.g. The following plants can be found near/in close vicinity of [camp name]: Yada yada)

As always, it is important to avoid too much copy/paste (so it is evident that the writer at least visited the camp) and, especially, avoid the formal tone, no matter how boring the camp is. I think we should throw the Sandbox (and these guidelines) onto the Community Portal when we are “happy”, just to get a few opinions before writing the rest of the pages. Now, I realize that I am in-game “only”, so the extraction of info will have to come from you – I am, however, always good for some hearty rambling and in-game checking! --Krusty 06:14, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I just visited Trossan Camp and was greeted by two dogs, which suggests that the inhabitants are spawned like in the dungeons, with a certain percentage of Bandits, dogs ect ect. We should probably mention that, if we can figure out the exact percentages. Also, the minor loot chest contained a Jeweled Necklace, so my question is – when it comes to camps are we talking about Bandit chests (01, 02 ect ect) – if so, we should mention that as well, with a link like this. Exactly HOW this should be done is a good question, but it is worth considering. --Krusty 07:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

The enemies are standard "camp bandits", which chooses any bandit enemy except bosses I believe. So dogs are included, as they are in most bandit levelled lists. The chest has a chance of gold, a repair hammer and "bandit camp minor loot". I'm guessing that your character is a high level and lucked out to get a jewelled necklace. Since there's almost nothing in most of the camps, I agree it might be worth going into detail on the exact spawn chances or enemies and linking to the containers present. I'm not sure how effective a map would be, as the map key for it would just end up being a copy of the description above. I think we should treat them more like detailed guild halls than dungeons, because no one is going to get lost in a bandit camp. I might ask you to provide the "exotic rambling" from in-game checking, because the CS doesn't really give you an impression of the atmosphere (and the view distance sucks! :P). Legoless 11:08, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I tried to add a bit of dungeon-like info, just to see how it looks + a bit more exotic rambling. Maybe it is not the way to go, but the dungeon pages are actually quite redundant as well; the walkthroughs explain the contents with a bit of "loove", while the listings provides a quick overview of the contents. Only an experiment, and I think we should involve the Community soon, but what do you think? --Krusty 20:02, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

That actually might work, without a map. Will I correct the info using the CS, or do you want to bring it to the CP now? Legoless 20:20, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

I think it would be good to correct the info before putting it up on the CP, just to limit the "you-have-to-imagine"-stuff. As of now, I'll take a quick trip to some camps just to see if we can run into even more stuff, like ingredients lying around and stuff like that. To make it easier on the eyes, when you are in there, please remove the SI camp for now - if we can get an OB camp right, an SI camp should pose no problem at all.I don't know if the is helpful, but I found this on the Bandit page: In bandit campsites, the chances for melee Bandits, Bandit Bowmen, and Dogs are the same, but the final possibility is a 12.5% chance of a Bandit Hedge Wizard. --Krusty 20:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Not sure where those percentages are from, but they're not correct for the two camp bandit lists present in the camp. Both the 50% and 100% lists have 50% chance of a melee bandit, 25% missile bandit, 12.5% magic bandit and 12.5% dog. I've corrected the other info, and I replaced the 'Chest 02' thing with the name of the actual chest, which I can't find a link for (possibly undocumented). Otherwise, it's good to go. Legoless 22:35, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Could you help me fix this

All hail the broken template — Unsigned comment by Candc4 (talk • contribs) at 17:14 on 29 April 2011

What do you need help with? It works fine for me. Legoless 16:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I had to hard refresh. I'm not the best with wiki markup, but I'll try to figure it out. Legoless 16:24, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit: Fixed it. You had accidentally used a '{' instead of a ']'. Legoless 16:28, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Due to the lack of pages I have made [1] — Unsigned comment by Candc4 (talk • contribs) at 18:09 on 29 April 2011

I have marked that page for speed deletion on the grounds that the help section is intended for teaching people how to edit, please move it to something like User:Candc4/Sandbox before it is deleted if you wish to keep this page. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 17:12, 29 April 2011 (UTC)