User talk:Robbrarine

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Books on the ESO Map

Good morning, Robbrarine! I noticed you recently edited the ESO map standards to add the following: "((Since names of books differ from platform to platform, include Wiki Page. (Example: Online:Manifesto of Kinlord Rilis XII))" I'm wondering what prompted this change. Clicking on a book on the ESO map will not send a user to a book from TES:III, IV, or V, so I'm wondering what you meant. You can edit this "talk" page to post a reply here, under my question, and end your reply with four tilde (~) symbols to sign and date it. Solomon1972 (talk) 14:03, 16 January 2024 (UTC)

Solomon1972, I have been noticing (found about 25 books and counting) that the names of the books dont correspond with what is on screen. I dont know if it is platform (PC,PS,XBox.etc) related ( I'm on PS5) or what. But I have notice if you put the Wiki Page it will direct you to the book. I have also have found deadend links and asking to create a new page for the books (one example was onscreen it was a "Volume 1" and Wiki Page was "Volume I"). I am not going to start editing the Wiki Page itself just for it to correspond with what I see onscreen just to find out that on a different platform it shows differently. It is easier to add the Wiki Page link and have it direct you to the current book. I hope this clarifies things. Robert C Thomas 00:55, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Ah! Makes sense. Lots of folks accidentally type the wrong thing when they create book links (1 vs. I, etc.), so it messes up the link to the wiki page for that book. I'll recommend one change to your process, though: If (a) the book title typed into the item on the UESP map correctly matches what the in-game item is called (when you look at it on-screen, before opening the book), and (b) there's no colon in that book title, and (c) the wiki page for that book has the same title as the UESP map item (sometimes they don't!), then there's no need to create a separate wiki entry with "Online:", because the UESP map item already automatically links directly to the correct wiki page.

For example, I noticed we both recently touched the UESP map item for the "Words of the Grand Sermonizer" book in the Gold Coast zone, over by Kvatch at At-Himah Family Estate. That UESP map item is labeled "Words of the Grand Sermonizer," and the book title has no colon in it, and the wiki page is also called "Words of the Grand Sermonizer," so there's no need to make an alternate wiki entry of "Online:Words of the Grand Sermonizer" (without the quotes).

There's a good example on the Gold Coast zone that DOES need the "Online:" tag in its wiki entry, and that is the book "Knightsgrave: Legend or Legacy," over near the coast at Knightsgrave. It's got a colon in the book title, so we MUST change the wiki entry to "Online:Knightsgrave: Legend or Legacy" or else it won't work. (Just a quirk of the system; it doesn't like colons in the links.)

I hope my explanation makes sense. You're just creating extra work when the title and destination are identical. Solomon1972 (talk) 15:18, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

Solomon1972, That is why when I find a book I just cut and paste the (Online:whatever book) from the Wiki Page and have not had any problems. I have found some without (Online:) and it was sent to a deadend link. To me it is easier just to cut and paste from the actual Wiki Page. I would rather had redundancy than deadend links. Robert C Thomas 15:36, 30 January 2024 (UTC)

I can see your argument. It's faster to simply copy and paste the title from the wiki page without worrying about any differences in (a) the name of the book when the player hovers their mouse over the item in-game, vs. (b) the name of the book at the top of the first page when the player reads the book in-game, vs. (c) what the name of the book is in the meta data (and thus the wiki page).

On the book "Knightsgrave: Legend or Legacy," though, you reverted the Name block back to "Online:Knightsgrave: Legend or Legacy." I had to change that back, since the book's name is not "Online:Knightsgrave: Legend or Legacy." The Wiki block needs to be "Online:Knightsgrave: Legend or Legacy," yes, but not the Name block.

Quest Markers on the ESO Map

Hi, Robbrarine! Just a note to point you to a helpful visual guide I made for adding/editing quest markers on the ESO map: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/UESPWiki:ESO_Map_Design#Visual_Guide_to_Creating_Quest_Markers

Keep up the great work! I can see you are contributing a huge amount of material to the map, and I'm so glad you're doing it! These visual guides will help provide standardization to what we're all doing, since I've seen quite a number of variations over the years. One note: when you copy the quest name from the quest's wiki page, please don't copy and paste the "Online:" part of the quest name title; just copy and paste everything after the "Online:" into the map marker. Muchas gracias! Solomon1972 (talk) 19:18, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Also: please don't change quest objectives to simply say the name of the person or object. When looking on the map in-game, the user (the player) sees a quest objective with an instruction (like "Use the Amplification Elixir", plus the quest name), which is what they should see when they look at the UESP map, not just names of people and objects. (For example, in the search bar on the UESP map, type in "Lyris" and see how many useless quest objectives we have named Lyris Titanborn; it doesn't tell the user anything helpful.) Thanks! I can see I am on Artaeum right behind you. I've got a character running through the Psijic time breaches right now. Lots of running. I'll label it "Fun!" Ha! Solomon1972 (talk) 20:24, 5 April 2024 (UTC)

Solomon1972, The Name IS supposed to be what is seen on screen, NOT a bunch of stuff. The Description line IS supposed to be where you put additional stuff. Unless you changed that in the past few days. I also have noticed that you have changed marker points to to numbers with decimal point instead of the original whole numbers. You have made it impossible to keep up with the different changes that you are making to all the original templates. Just wondering if you have passed all these changes with to the templates with Dave? Robert C Thomas 01:34, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Robbrarine, I am one of the most active map editors for ESO and have been making changes for the past year and more, very publicly, through the activity on the wiki-maps channel in the UESP Discord (a channel which I asked Dave to create in the first place). I have made some suggestions that the community has decided to adopt, and others that they have not. (I have a request for input out there right now, about ship names.) I spoke with Thal about your way of copying and pasting into the wiki page block, and realized your method makes it much faster for someone doing lots of book edits, so I incorporated a note about it in one of the visual guide templates. I have helped test the new map that Thal created. I have been made map editor (which only Dave, Thal, and I are currently). I have heavily updated the map display standards, yes, due mostly to the problems with clutter at various levels, which no one had dealt with in a long time. Sometimes my ideas stick and sometimes they don't. (I asked the community for input about not putting individual crafting station icons at a site already labeled as a full crafting site, due to clutter, but I got shot down.)

As for the Name block, no, we don't need a bunch of quest markers with a generic name on them (as my Lyris example shows); we need quest markers that users can match up with the quest when they're looking for information on the map when they're stuck on a step, or when they're trying to get oriented to where they've been and where they're going.

As for the Description block, I'm not saying not to put things in there; I'm just saying the "Online:" doesn't belong in front of the Quest Name.

As for the decimal points, that was a natural result of the change to the new map. Thal asked me to develop a new breakout, since the zoom on the new map is so much better than the old one and could incorporate decimal points with ease.

Everything I've worked on has been discussed in Discord. Come join us in there, so you can post thoughts, ideas, proposed changes, so we can all give thumbs up / thumbs down on each other's ideas. Solomon1972 (talk) 04:38, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Solomon1972, Thank you for clarification. I will start not adding Online: to the Lore books, but have notice with the ones that have a : in the title without Online: in the wiki page it sends it to a deadend link. I dont know if it is due to the code that is used that doesn't recognize it without the Online:. I am not a computer programmer so honestly wont get into that side of editing. I only have been doing more input of recent because I was injured at work and have nothing else to really do at home so I get onto ESO. I haven't joined Discord to see what is going on in the editing community. Maybe I will and keep more up to date. Robert C Thomas 17:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

Robbrarine, I fully agree that adding the "Online:" for those books that have a colon in them is essential, or they won't work. (Took me a while to figure out why some books weren't working!)

FYI, I recently adopted your use of the "rededication shrine" icon instead of the "wayshrine" icon for the respawn point inside dungeons and delves. Your choice looks a lot better and saves space when entrances are crowded with other icons, so I've started changing them all to your version whenever I edit dungeons, etc. :) Solomon1972 (talk) 20:29, 6 April 2024 (UTC)