User talk:Rpeh/Arc 201011

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moved to jar

90.199.86.193

I believe this IP is Anron, but I am not sure. Does blocking an account also blocks the associated IP? --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 19:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes it probably is, but I can't prove that. Autoblock blocks the last IP that an account used, but I don't doubt it's easy enough for Anron to switch IPs. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:13, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll ask Krusty who is a Check User, he can find it. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 19:14, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Already checked it; nothing to be found when doing a CheckUser - the anon only has that one edit to Unfriendly Competition. --Krusty 19:16, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Severius/Sevarius?

Hey rpeh! A quick question, and an odd one - I just extracted all the dialogue from the Sintav/Atius clans (just to figure out exactly what happened to cause the feud) and something struck me; We have a page called Severius Atius, while he introduces himself as "Sevarius" - and Helvo Atius also calls him Sevarius in his dialogue. I don't really think that the page name is incorrect - do we just have a spelling error and a few sic-tags to add? I have looked around for a bit of info on this and couldn't find any on the wiki. The UOP, however, fixes it with the description: Corrected name of NPC "Severius Atius" » "Sevarius Atius" (also corrected his key) to match his internal name, dialog and house names. Any suggestions? Sic-tags and bug info on Severius' page? Redirect? --Krusty 20:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

His ID is SevariusAtius, in fact, so it looks like his name might have been the game's typo. --Arch-Mage Matt ^{Did I Do That?} 20:36, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks like this is another Gottlesfont Priory. Or should that be Gottlefont with no "s"?

With this kind of thing there's no "right" and "wrong" answer, only a "best" answer. We (finally) settled on Gottlesfont because most in-game references spell it that way and because at least one exterior cell uses the name. The latter point is important because it's what people will see on the map, so is what most people will call the place.

In this case, it's a similar call. There are two lines of dialogue with the "a" spelling, his edid has the "a" spelling, his key's edid has the "a" spelling. His name and his key's name have the "e" spelling.

My personal opinion is that the UOP does this one wrong. The thing that most people will see is "Severius", so I'd have changed the dialogue to match that, not the other way around. There are plenty of other examples where edids don't match names, so I don't think that should be a deciding factor.

Whatever the final decision, there should be a redirect from one to the other with an "alternate names" cat.

And don't you just hate Bethesda for doing this? :) rpeh •T•C•E• 21:18, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Haha, you bet I do. In this case, the "a" spelling seems to be used most frequently (his house use the "a" as well, on the map and the three cells), but I guess the "e"-spelling is the right choice, as his on-screen name is the one worth mentioning - even if he greets you with the "a"-spelling (Confused? Me too!). Still, while I agree that the Redirect should be created (and the Category as well), do we need Sic-tags all over the place? I just noticed that his NPC Summary have one already. --Krusty 22:06, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

If it's a regular occurrence, I'd use a note rather than multiple {{sic}}s. Too many of the latter are distracting, I think. rpeh •T•C•E• 22:43, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Molag Mar Transport

Brf recently made this change, and it made me wonder if there should actually be a map marker for that boat, like there is for the other ones he did recently. I didn't see any map markers for any of the other boats I checked in-game, so I'm guessing they're something we've chosen to add. I'll leave it to you to decide. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Also, I noticed that the Ships are marked on the map by-name, while the Open Boats, other than the one at Molag Mar, are marked as Boat Transport, Cityname --Brf 17:51, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

This would seem to be the result of an argument about what markers should go where. The ships get a name because they have a cell of their own so there's a door, and all door get markers. One or two open ships also have names revealed from dialogue so they get one too. That's fine, but at this point some people wanted the "Boat Transport" markers for everything but I thought things were already too cluttered and only wanted them for boats that weren't marked with some other marker. Having been out-voted, I left them to it. The result would seem to be that some boats have two markers and some have none. Having gone through this once already, I'll pass on the argument this time. rpeh •T•C•E• 10:27, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Cool. I was guessing that the two-marker ones were because they had two doors. So how about adding the Molag Mar transport one? The Molag Mar map does not seem too crowded at the highest magnification. I also noticed that some of the ships, such as the Ebonheart and Dagon Fel ones, have markers for both the ship and the transport NPC, while others do not. Is this just because the latter ones are cluttered, or because they were missed? --Brf 11:43, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

For consistency's sake, I'd be in favour of adding boat markers to those where there are no existing markers, but if there were already a marker with an indicative name like "Seyda Neen Marina" or "Seyda Neen Harbor" at roughly the same location as the boat, then I don't really see the need to clutter the map with yet another marker. That said, I've only glanced at Morrowind so far, so that opinion should be weighed appropriately. I may have a more informed opinion whenever I really start playing it. – Robin Hood↝talk 17:17, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

So how about adding that Boat Transport, Molag Mar marker? It is the only one that is not marked one way or the other. — Unsigned comment by Brf (talk • contribs) on 8 November 2010

Done, sorry. Been distracted with other map-related stuff. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:45, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Cool. To be consistant, it should point to Morrowind:Rindral Dralor --Brf 19:55, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Done. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:17, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

What?

I noticed you reverted an edit at Oblivion talk:Deepscorn Hollow (quest). First, why did you reverted it? And second, what does "AOL" means? I could not understand your edit summary and that confused me. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 16:57, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Read this. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:59, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Ebonheart Homes

I was just being consistent by making that Ebonheart Homes link point to a non-existent #homes anchor. I am pretty sure there are other towns that do that too. --Brf 02:41, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't think any other pages link to a non-existent anchor - they certainly shouldn't do. There are several towns that have broken homes links (Maar Gan, Molag Mar, Tel Branora and Tel Mora) because those pages haven't been written yet. Consistency is good, but having a non-functional link purely to be consistent isn't a good idea. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:58, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

3000 Pages?

When did you propose 3000 pages for deletion? How on earth did there ever get to be that many?--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 09:43, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Eh? Where did that figure come from?

It could be about right, though. Unwanted page/image redirects, spam, general nonsense... 3,000 sounds a lot but it's not impossible. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:47, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

It came from [[1]].--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 09:51, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah! That was all the /Author and /Description subpages that we no longer needed when the new place/quest/book templates were used. I didn't personally do it - RoBoT did the leg-work. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:55, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Who?

Who was the editor "notorious for adding incorrect information"? I got lost at the history of Oblivion:PS3. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 15:49, 15 November 2010 (UTC) P.S. I totally freaked out when you called me "editor notorious for adding incorrect information", but after I saw the "oops" at your edit summary I assumed that you did it accidently (you did, right?).

Webdemon00. rpeh •T•C•E• 16:13, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Anon Editing - How Long Have We Had It?

Basically the title. I need it for this.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 19:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

You've been able to edit as an anon for longer than I've been around - so over 4 years. There's a debate tucked away somewhere... I'll tty to find it. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah - here. So sometime in late December 2006. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:22, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Looks like it was enabled on October 16, 2006, which is coincidentally the exact date of my first logged-in edit. :) --GK^talk2me 22:44, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Jolly well found! And after I'd joined. Maybe I only registered because I had to? I can't remember! rpeh •T•C•E• 09:07, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Can you help me when you get the chance please?

I'm trying to beat the mod "The Imperial Leigon" and the quest "The road ever goes on" is IMPOSSIBLE for me! Thanks in advance! Oblivion Lover 07:59, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I've never played that mod, I'm afraid, so I can't help. Sorry. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:05, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Armor question

I stumbled upon this image while going through the various excellent TR3 NPC pages (great work btw!)... I was just wandering if it was a TR cuirass, because I can't recall it from Morrowind. Also, is the guy shown Hannibal? Or Philip of Macedonia? Or someone else? ;) --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:47, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It's just a "Steel Cuirass", but yes - it's TR3-specific: the id is TR_a_steel_cuirass_04. The pauldrons are new to TR3 too. The face isn't one I recognise, but it could easily be someone like that, yes. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Text Align Problems

I'm trying to get two things aligned on opposite sides of a page. However <div style="text-align: left;">Text</div><div style="text-align: right;">Text</div> produces text on opposite sides of the page but on different lines. Any ideas?--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 21:23, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

There's no easy way of doing that. Use a table. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:46, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Tried that, but Blogger doesn't support wikitables. Any other options? Right now because of their auto-aligning it I have to use periods as spacers but I'd prefer a less ugly solution.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 21:52, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Whoops! It's not a wikitable I needed.--Ghurhak gro-Demril _{or TAO}^Yes? 22:17, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Just so you know...

The reason that I'm FULL of cleanup-tags is that I've suffered another big computer crash and lost my Photoshop - so I can't make any images whatsoever. Just wanted to let you know that I'm not lazy. Oh, and all my Dawnstar-info went out the window as well - and that sucks! Ah, well, this is not a forum. ;) --Krusty 20:45, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Remind me never to buy a Danish computer! I'm just glad to see you back. This news explains the lack of replies to my emails, too. I thought you'd fallen under a bus or something, and it's great to see that's not the case.

Re images: it might be better to formalize this rather than putting a {{Cleanup}} tag on everything, because otherwise we're going to end up with a lot of tags when most of the images only need trimming and brightening.

I'm gutted to hear about the DS stuff. I remember when I lost a load of code to generate the MW map and it took me ages to get motivated enough to start from scratch again. Keep going, mate! We need you! rpeh •T•C•E• 00:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Haha, well, knock over a beer into your laptop and it is bound to crash. Nevertheless, most of the DS stuff was uploaded anyway, but all the images (and the layers and stuff) are gone. Hopefully, I will be able to extract the data from the crashed computer, but right now it is... dead. All my software is gone as well, so I'm back on TextEdit and nothing else - expect plenty of grammatical and spelling errors in the future! ;) Anyway, I sent you three e-mails yesterday - did you receive those? Oh, and are you suggesting that I simply add the images to that Sandbox of yours instead of all the tags? --Krusty 07:16, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Yup, I just noticed the emails and will reply next. That sandbox should contain all the images that are the wrong size. In fact it's probably a little bit out of date now as I've re-uploaded some of the images on that page. Felgageldt Cave is definitely on the list, though.

I'll leave it up to you. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:27, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I'm going to get RoBoT to upload cropped/resized versions of all my old 1680x1050 images. This might over-crop some, but in most cases that will take care of the aspect ratio problem. Now if you notice any that need brightening, feel free to add the tag. rpeh •T•C•E• 08:59, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

No worries, I'll keep an eye out for over-cropping. And as soon as I get my Photoshop back, I'll do some lighting myself. :) --Krusty 09:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Boots of Springheel Jak

Okay, I'm going for a total revamp of that messy quest page - I'm probably going to need some CS help along the way, so hopefully, you will help me a bit here and there?
My very first question is this: Is Jakben disabled before the quest ever starts? I have been looking everywhere for him and he is nowhere to be found, making it pretty hard to make any kind of schedule and whatever. I know we have the Disabled NPCs-list - but I can't find him there. --Krusty 11:27, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Nope, he's always enabled. I just went through all the scripts, and nothing ever changes his enabled status. He should always be at home except for Mondas, Middas and Fredas when he's out from 10pm for four hours. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Damn, just tested it with 8(!) different saves and he is enabled in all of them - before you told me about the 10pm-thing I spent hours and hours trying to find him, with no luck. My bad! --Krusty 13:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello again! Just to save me a lot of time following Jakben around for an entire in-game week, and because I know you just went through his schedule because of my idiocy: He wanders around the second floor (either in his study or near the dinnertable) all the time without ever eating or sleeping and only ventures outside on Morndas, Middas and Fredas, between 10pm and 2am - wandering around the area behind Umbacano Manor. Is that the complete schedule? Thanks in advance! :) --Krusty 18:43, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

The CS schedule is a little more complex, and it's a bug that you aren't seeing him go to sleep. These are the schedules from highest priority to lowest:

• Martial Law (runs home during MQ16)
• Attack player (If TG10 stage 37 is done, but you haven't reached 45, and you're in his house or the tomb)
• Head to his study (at TG10 stage 35)
• Wander around Talos Plaza (Mon, Wed, Fri, 10pm-2am)
• Wander in his stufy (7pm - 9pm)
• Wander in his stufy (3am - 5am)
• Sleep in his tomb (6am - 6pm). This is the bug - there's no bed down there for him to sleep in.
• Default: wander around the second floor of his house.

Come to think of it, the door to the tomb is locked and Jakben never actually has the key - it's added directly to your inventory at stage 35 of the quest, so he can't even get into the tomb to sleep in the bed that doesn't exist :) rpeh •T•C•E• 11:39, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! I'll give the data a quick check later today, but everything seems fine according to my first observations. Giant bug with the basement key and the missing bed - we'll have to figure out a bug description at some point. --Krusty 11:51, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

(←) Ah, screw it – here comes the million-dollar question; fact is, we have an entire cave underneath Jakben’s house, complete with leveled enemies, treasure containers and a map. It is called “Catacombs” and we do not have any info about that place anywhere. Now, there is absolutely no doubt that it would be great to have a map extracted from the CS (nudge nudge) for the new walkthrough page – question is; should we make a fully-fledged place-page out of it? --Krusty 12:14, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

That is a good question. I'm not sure I like the idea of a page for one zone, though. I don't think we do that anywhere else, although I might be wrong. Since you can only access the catacombs through the house, maybe we should create an article for the entire house (in the style of the Guild Hall pages, say) and feature the catacombs as a zone of that? I'll get working on a map though. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:18, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, I can't think of anything similar either, except maybe Hackdirt Caverns or something - still, no matter what we choose, it will be a "first":

• Make a place page for a cave only accessible from a house - and during a given quest.
• Make a separate House page for an NPC - dangerous business! ;)
• Make an entire cave structure part of an NPC page.

Tough question! Maybe we should let the CS "decide" - I mean, judge it from the number of treasures, enemies and so on? --Krusty 12:36, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

I seem to recall GK being keen to write pages for the "big" houses like this one, and the other two in the centre of the Plaza. This might be a good excuse to do it. We definitely don't want a full page for every hovel in each town, but the biggest houses might be worth doing. rpeh •T•C•E• 13:05, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Well I've done the map anyway. Maybe some other people will chip in with opinions. rpeh •T•C•E• 13:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Great with the map - it will spice up the quest page in a totally original way! :) What exactly to do with the Catacombs is a good question - I remember GKs suggestion, but on the other hand it might lead to endless discussions about which houses "qualify" and whatever. Maybe it's a good thing - but for now, the map goes on the quest page. Btw, why did you never show me THIS excellent image - that one goes straight to my user page at some point! --Krusty 17:55, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

(←) Almost done with the walkthrough, but for the sake of completeness, I need a bit of info from the CS:

• What kind of enemies do we have in the Catacombs? Are they leveled in any way? Any useful information about them that would be worth adding?
• What kind of equipment will Jakben wear when he is attacking you? Seems leveled to me - and possibly enchanted, but I bet there's some exact info? Useful for the NPC page as well, of course. ;) Otherwise, I'm almost done! --Krusty 00:13, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

In the catacombs, the creatures are as follows: 1*LL1CampireBossLvl100, 1*LL1Vampire100, 1*LL1Vampire75, 1*LL1Undead75 and 5*LL2VampireLair50. That means one guaranteed vampire boss (Matriarch or Patriarch) and one other guaranteed vampire, then a 75% chance of another vampire and a 75% chance of an undead. The LL2VampireLair50 list has a 50% chance of anything appearing, and it may be a vampire (50%), undead (33%) or vampire beast (rat, wolf or timber wolf - 17%).

His equipment is leveled, and will always be the best quality for your level. Boots, greaves, cuirass, gauntlets are always light armor, and all except the boots may be enchanted. He carries a long blade, also leveled, which can also be enchanted.

Sheesh, I hate decoding leveled lists! rpeh •T•C•E• 09:46, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Haha, thanks a lot anyway - I'm not sure where to put all that detailed information about the monsters, but now we have it for the other page (or whatever we decide).

Nevertheless, I have now played through the quest a good 15 times, I've come to hate Jakben and I have rewritten the whole thing - now it really is a Detailed Walkthrough! In any case, reading through it, I find some of the language a bit clumsy and maybe some of the info is confusing and could be sorted. Since I can't look at the thing anymore, could you do me a big favor and read through the whole thing and make the necessary changes so the page hits the standards? It is located in my Sandbox. A bit later on, I'll start testing the myriad of bugs - there must be at least a few of them that can be canned. If you know of any, please delete them right away. Thanks for all the help - we're getting there! --Krusty 10:24, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Looking good! I tweaked a couple of things but otherwise it's great. Bug-wise, I think all the UOP ones should be kept but I'm less sure about the others. rpeh •T•C•E• 11:33, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tweaking! I'll launch the page later this evening - after I have checked a few of the bugs. :) --Krusty 15:26, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

A bit late, but I reckon we should make a page for Jak's house and have the Catacombs as their own section. On a related note: great job both of you! The page is brilliant! --SerCenKing ^Talk 17:41, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I think so, too. I'll start a topic on CP so we have a proper record of the discussion and can establish proper guidelines for which houses get pages and which don't. rpeh •T•C•E• 19:11, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

(←) Back to the quest page again, with a question; it seems like we have conflicting statements on the page now, as the new note states that "there is no way of obtaining the boots before the quest starts.", while the bug at the very bottom says "It is possible to pickpocket the boots from Jakben whilst not even being in the Thieves Guild..." We should probably clean this up, but I have no idea which statement is true - do you? --Krusty 11:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I just did some testing. Normally, he's wearing the boots so you can't take them from him. If you attack him, however, he will wear his leveled boots instead. You can then yield to him and take the boots from him - or knock him unconscious and use the taking-stuff-from-an-essential-NPC-who's-waking-up glitch. Now there's a twist. Taking the boots is supposed to set stage 45 on the quest, but I didn't get the update. Since the boots are a quest item, you can't drop them and pick them up again later so this might break the TG quest line. rpeh •T•C•E• 12:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for testing; seems like I have a bit of additional testing to do later today - but it seems like the note can go in any case? --Krusty 13:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

I think so, yes. rpeh •T•C•E• 13:43, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Question about checking

When checking pages from the ONPCRP does it work like : If something is written in-game does it have to be checked on the CS and vice-versa. Also after a page is fully checked, can the template be removed? Emoboy64 00:06, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm not Rpeh, but I can definitely answer; yes, you are very correct: if something is written in-game, it has to be checked in the CS - and vice versa. No, the template can not be removed. When everything is said and done (example here) the tag will visually disappear, but if you click the edit button you will notice that all the template data is still there. We keep them for several reasons; to refer back to the authors; if we discover something is not right (like what recently happened here); or if we suddenly decide to add a whole new category. --Krusty 00:28, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing this up for me. I had the feeling it was like that, but I had to make sure. Thanks again - Emoboy64 01:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Krusty has pretty much answered that but there are one or two extra things to say. First, there are always exceptions. For instance, it can be tricky to check the inventories of essential characters because you can't kill them and see what stuff they were wearing, so you often have to write those purely from the CS. Second, things like spells pretty much have to be written directly from the CS because you can't exhaustively check those in game. There are other examples too, but in general double-checking by doing both an in-game and CS check is the way to go. rpeh •T•C•E• 09:31, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

House Page

Hey Rpeh! Before responding to the official discussion on the CP, I went ahead and tried to compose some sort of house page in my good ol' Sandbox. I think it is important to be able to provide an example, so what do you think about it? Any thoughts? Feel MORE than free to edit the sandbox if you have further suggestions or ideas. All the best from snowy DK. --Krusty 13:15, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

It's a good page. I just feel we're going into a little too much detail. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, the details are pretty much the same as they are on the Guild-pages and the like. I just took the house description from Surius' own page as it is now. Also, a bit of rambling about the inhabitants could be a possibility, if there is anything interesting to say. Maybe a "Residents" box like most of the other place-pages? Anyhow, I think it is pretty nice to get some sort of example to get the discussion going. :) --Krusty 15:26, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

The difference with the guilds is that there's only two of those per city - just twelve pages - and they're sufficiently different to be worth describing. With the houses, they're all basically the same: basement full of sacks and crates, ground floor with books / food and an upstairs with a bed and clothing. It's just about okay on the NPC pages, but creating 50-odd pages like that doesn't seem like a good idea to me. rpeh •T•C•E• 15:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for patrolling all those edits at Exodus' page. I couldn't because I got 4 edit conflicts! 4! --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 18:25, 29 November 2010 (UTC) P.S. Since you also are knowledgeable about Oblivion's inner settings and mechanics, can you help here?

I need help

I don't know how to edit that well on UESP but I want to help. Is there something that will help me like a teacher, mentor, etc.? NSA KanickKnack 21:25, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

See here. --Rigas Papadopoulos • Talk • Deeds • 21:27, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Rigas. And while Im here will you, rpeh, be my mentor? NSA KanickKnack 21:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Basic help can also be found here and here. If you need specific help on something, I'll gladly act as your mentor. rpeh •T•C•E• 21:33, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks I'm completely new to this so I want to make sure I don't mess something up and you helped me before so you were the first choice for me. NSA KanickKnack 21:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)