Skyrim talk:Archery

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Arrow maximum distance?

After a certain distance of flight an arrow vanishes - is removed from the game. I've tested this about 500 times in many different circumstances. The vanish distance always appears to be the same. Can somebody please tell me how I could measure this distance? How to measure cells and multiple cells in some useful reliable manner? As an FYI, as near as I can guess, when the game executes the various calculations of damage and trajectory eventually it gets close to a divide by zero and there is a cut off within the code, obviously. Else, if you fired an arrow off from, say High Hrothgar, on out into the distance the game would calculate for several seconds and almost inevitably crash. If anyone wishes to test this, use a parked dragon for a target (the largest of all - not a mammoth as they have very small actual target area) and fire from a great distance using standard drop ballistics. Approach a little and repeat. Using this method, where the arrow is removed from the game and where it hits can be established into one PC step forward. Sniffles (talk) 09:55, 6 March 2013 (GMT)

As a PS, I've been in archery IRL, semi and pro, for quite a few years. This is aggravating to me as the arrow vanishing seems to be around 90 yards. A somewhat realistic amount but, as example, a 75lb double spool compound bow firing a 42 inch fiberglass shaft arrow with a steel field point, without windage, can shoot a 2 foot group at 140 yards. One would think a super foofy ultra exotic kerzomph enchanted bow could outdo a conventional IRL one, oui? — Unsigned comment by Sniffles (talk • contribs) at 10:03 on 6 March 2013

According to the game settings, the maximum distance is 2000 units. This is just under half of a cell(2048). When converted to meters(an estimation only), a bit less than 28 meters. --Rasikko (talk) 13:30, 27 June 2018 (UTC)

bullseye

"a few seconds"

how many? — Unsigned comment by 24.38.217.116 (talk) at 06:02 on 4 July 2013‎

Good question. This was asked over a year ago with no response. I checked CSList but couldn't see anything that shows the effect or duration. Maybe somebody can find this in the Construction Kit. --Xyzzy ^Talk 06:36, 4 July 2013 (GMT)

According to the CK, it lasts 10 seconds (see here for CSList). Added it to the article. -- SarthesArai ^Talk 19:16, 4 July 2013 (GMT)

Reduced draw time damage effect

Does anyone know the formula for how draw time affects damage? The page just says "less damage" — Unsigned comment by 24.200.26.45 (talk) on 9:40, 1 September 2013

Power Shot

Has anyone figured out precisely what targets are immune to the stagger effect? — Unsigned comment by 72.218.129.123 (talk) at 17:09 on 15 September 2013

"Sum total"

"Arrow damage is the sum total of the quality and material of the bow and the arrow being used, as well as the bow's draw length."

So the bow's draw length is ADDED to the damage? I would have thought it would be multiplied in. Is this correct? Xolroc (talk) 14:35, 14 October 2013 (GMT)

Falmer Ping-Pong

Ok, so sometimes you all know you can get a "paralyse on death" scenario with the Bullseye perk, where the body of whatever you have shot becomes ridged in death (leading to some amusing if somewhat compromising positions...) and quite often leave their weapons hovering in mid air if they haven't drawn them yet. When this is done to a Falmer, however, most noticeably when they are crouching, they seem to go a little mental and bounce around like a pinball. I've had them bouncing quite far and multiple times, especially when you are shooting them from lower down. Is this a glitch or just crazy game physics? It sometimes happens with other bodies, though is more "vigorous" with the Falmer. My partner is a little creeped out by my giggling fits when this happens, but I'd kinda like to know what's going on here! AyaHawkeye (talk) 02:50, 22 October 2013 (GMT)

Overdraw

Technically speaking, should the Overdraw perk really apply to crossbows? I'm no expert, but realistically, it seems moot due to the mechanics of loading a bolt. I dunno - just curious.76.182.214.222 00:10, 29 December 2013 (GMT)

Realistically it probably shouldn't, but the perk applies to all weapons with the keyword WeapTypeBow, which includes crossbows. --Xyzzy ^Talk 00:47, 29 December 2013 (GMT)

Bound Bow DPS

With the very fast draw speed and the very large base damage from the Mystic Bound bow, it might be worth adding these figures to the bar chars to show DPS. I am guessing that the bound bow (mystic) dominates all other bows in base DPS.72.66.107.212 16:09, 21 February 2014 (GMT)

I added a chart that has the bows and their DPS so that people can see where various bows stack up. I'll try to add links later72.66.107.212 16:09, 21 February 2014 (GMT)

Hm, why does Zephyr DPS come out at 12 in the table, and 11.7 at the section above? Also I'm not sure if the big table duplicating a lot of data is that useful. If we go that route we add a table with all one-handed weapons to Skyrim:One-handed next. Isn't there a more compact way to represent the data of interest? --Alfwyn (talk) 21:38, 21 February 2014 (GMT)

The info in the graph seems to be a little inaccurate, with the ancient Nord bow being the worst by far. Looking at the CSList entry for it, multiplying its damage (8) times its speed (.875) should give you a DPS of 7, but its shown as 9.62 on the graph. Am I calculating this wrong, or does the graph need some tweaking?

As far as the long list in concerned, I like it. The graph gives a quick comparison of the generic bows, while the list gives valuable in-depth info that is not listed with this amount of detail anywhere else on the wiki, AFAIK. I don't see any good reason to not allow a similar list on each of the other specific weapon type articles. --Xyzzy ^Talk 06:26, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

Well, the general concern here is, that there are endless possibilities to re-arrange info already found on the wiki. It is a good thing to try to avoid redundancy - only one place to get things right then, making achieving accuracy manageable. Of course avoiding redundancy is not the only thing to consider, we don't have DPS comparison or all bows together on any other page. I think ideally DPS would be already documented at the individual bow pages. If we would store those values, we could generate tables like this on the fly and just link to them instead of making articles considerably longer. This would be easier using a "concept" from Semantic MediaWiki, but using {{#listsaved}} from MetaTemplate might work too. So much about ideally.

Regarding the Ancient Nord Bow, the value in the graph seems to be an average of "Ancient North Bow" (base 8) and "Supple Ancient North Bow" (base 14). 11*.875 = 9.625 - certainly somewhat unusual and in the need of elaboration. Alfwyn (talk) 15:57, 22 February 2014 (GMT)

The graph's "Ancient Nord" should be relabeled to "Nord Hero", which is an Ancient Nord Bow tempered at the Sky Forge. The data fits, but I can't say whether the footnote is true. --◄mendel► (talk) 14:15, 23 February 2014 (GMT)

(←) Some fundamental questions: How does arrow damage play into all this? That is, does a bow dps number make that much sense, when bows with smaller base damage, but being faster will win if we add some additional damage? Or if we add damage by tempering. And what about crossbows? Finally, has any testing been done on those numbers, or are they just theory? --Alfwyn (talk) 18:17, 23 February 2014 (GMT)

Name (ID)	16/16	15/16	14/16	13/16	12/16	11/16	10/16	9/16	8/16
Speed	1	0,938	0,875	0,813	0,75	0,688	0,625	0,563	0,5
Practice Arrow	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Rusty Arrow	4	3,75	3,5	3,25	3	2,75	2,5	2,25	2
Forsworn Arrow, Falmer Arrow	7	6,57	6,13	5,69	5,25	4,82	4,38	3,94	3,5
Iron Arrow	8	7,5	7	6,5	6	5,5	5	4,5	4
Steel Arrow, Ancient Nord Arrow, Riekling SpearDB	10	9,38	8,75	8,13	7,5	6,88	6,25	5,63	5
Orcish Arrow	12	11,26	10,5	9,76	9	8,26	7,5	6,76	6
Dwarven Arrow, Nordic ArrowDB	14	13,13	12,25	11,38	10,5	9,63	8,75	7,88	7
Elven Arrow	16	15,01	14	13,01	12	11,01	10	9,01	8
Glass Arrow	18	16,88	15,75	14,63	13,5	12,38	11,25	10,13	9
Ebony Arrow, Stalhrim ArrowDB	20	18,76	17,5	16,26	15	13,76	12,5	11,26	10
Dwarven Sphere Centurion Arrow	20	18,76	17,5	16,26	15	13,76	12,5	11,26	10
Nord Hero Arrow	24	22,51	21	19,51	18	16,51	15	13,51	12
Daedric Arrow	24	22,51	21	19,51	18	16,51	15	13,51	12
Bound Arrow	24	22,51	21	19,51	18	16,51	15	13,51	12
Dragonbone ArrowDG	25	23,45	21,88	20,33	18,75	17,2	15,63	14,08	12,5
Speed	1	0,938	0,875	0,813	0,75	0,688	0,625	0,563	0,5
Bow name	Long	Hunting	A.Nord	Orc	Dwarf	Elf	Glass	Ebony	Daedric
Base damage	6	7	8	10	12	13	15	17	19
Bow dps	6	6,57	7	8,13	9	8,94	9,38	9,57	9,5
Bow + Iron Arrow (8)	14	14,07	14	14,63	15	14,45	14,38	14,08	13,5
Bow + Elven Arrow (16)	22	21,57	21	21,14	21	19,95	19,38	18,58	17,5
Bow + Daedric Arrow (24)	30	29,08	28	27,64	27	25,46	24,38	23,08	21,5
Bow name	Zephyr	of Hunt			Dragon
Base damage	12	10	14		20
Bow dps	12	9,38	12,25		15
Bow + Daedric Arrow (24)	36	31,89	33,25		33

Bound Bow (24x0.875) and Bound Arrow = 42 dps.

--◄mendel► (talk) 00:30, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

The dps values are naive (i.e. wrong), since they disregards nock and rest time, which add 1s to each shot. --◄mendel► (talk) 00:43, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

The timing formula on the page is wrong, and clearly requires different speed constants than those we list, since speed is in the denominator. Enchantments create a similar effect to the arrow effect: since they're not proportional to the bow base damage either, faster firing produces more dps from any given enchantment, and so does Smithing. If anyone can provide a reliable timing formula that provides seconds per shot or shots per minute or something like that, I'll gladly redo those calculations. Research! --◄mendel► (talk) 01:23, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

Thank you for looking into this. But I think the speed in the denominator is right. It means a higher speed results in less time needed. --Alfwyn (talk) 15:39, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

Ok, a new spreadsheet is up at File:User-Mendel-Arrow dps.zip. It uses our formula and an estimated 1s downtime between shots. However, archery perks are not applied to arrows, so the table is still not reflecting in-game circumstances, where players might quadruple the base damage of their bows (incl. enhancements), but not their arrows and enchantments.

Use a Dragonbone bow if you can, it is worth it -- up to 30% more dps than the slow Daedric bow. --◄mendel► (talk) 20:15, 24 February 2014 (GMT)

Correction to trajectory

Tested the bows as listed on the Bows page under actual in game circumstances. The test criteria was established using the Daedric bow at the farthest it would fire an arrow with a completely flat trajectory. (66 paces). In order, from the flattest trajectory to the most arc:

Daedric

Ebony

Glass

Dragonbone

Elven

Dwarven

Orcish

Nord Hero

Hunting

Longbow

This does not exactly correlate with the speed as being the factor for trajectory as the Wiki page claims. This can be easily tested comparing the Dwarven bow with the Dragon bow, both listed at .75 speed, with the Dwarven having over (about) 1 foot greater drop.

In addition the article could mention that the drop in trajectory from the test distance of 66 paces to 100 paces is extremely drastic, depending upon the bow according to the above list. The Daedric bow drop about 18 inches while the Dragon bow drop about 3 feet. I can provide screen shots showing all 10 arrows, with each one labeled. The tests were repetitively done until accuracy was certain.

The article could also mention that in terms of total damage over an extended period of time using just the standard bows listed, the Dragonbone delivers the highest, going by actual shots fired per minute. (Numerous mammoths gave their lives in determining this). Sniffles (talk) 05:53, 16 March 2014 (GMT)

Guard dialogue with bow equipped

The conditions for the two guard dialogue selections in the article don't seem to be completely accurate. The conditions for both "Keep your arrows in their quiver, archer." and "Favor the bow, eh? I'm a sword man, myself." in CSList are almost identical, with the main exception that the second may be spoken even if you have one of 3 different sword types equipped, rather than a bow. Also, I don't see equipped arrows mentioned. This probably needs in-game verification. --Xyzzy ^Talk 01:56, 19 March 2014 (GMT)

This article largely neglects crossbows

e.g. they're not in the tables - I presume because calculating the DPS for them is problematic, perhaps more so than for normal bows, but it'd still be nice to have (for example) the base damage listed somewhere, since that is the only stat that affects Archery skill levelling (assuming that crossbows increase Archery skill, which - again - isn't mentioned anywhere). Is there any particular reason they've been left out? Should I, or maybe someone who's actually competent, add some info in? 203.206.126.47 16:35, 31 May 2014 (GMT)

For what it's worth, the base damage for normal and enhanced regular crossbows is 19, and 22 for normal/enhanced Dwarven crossbows - making the Dwarven crossbow variants the second-best (obtainable) bows for levelling the skill (better than Dragonbone), and putting the regular version on the 4th-best tier with the Daedric and top-end Nightingale bows... assuming you are only taking a single shot to kill things (a poor assumption, but possibly valid for stealthy-type one-shot-one-kill characters). 203.206.126.47 16:43, 31 May 2014 (GMT)

Having thought about it, surely calculating the DPS for a crossbow would be easier, since there's no variance in draw. Also, I confirmed that crossbows do in fact level Archery skill (not that it was really in question, but I like to be thorough) 203.206.126.47 18:53, 31 May 2014 (GMT)

Lastly, the page really should discuss how Archery perks affect the crossbow - e.g. whether or not Quick Shot improves the reload time, and if/how Ranger does anything much (I assume it works as usual if you're holding down the draw button, but there's really not much point in doing that with a crossbow unless you're using Eagle Eye/Steady Hand). 203.206.126.47 19:04, 31 May 2014 (GMT)

Damage increase per skill point increase

On the one-handed page there is this:

"Each skill point grants a +0.5% bonus to the damage dealt with one-handed weapons (+2% for NPCs). "

But there is no similar information for the archery skill or the two-handed skill. Does anyone know these stats? If so, please share and either add it to the respective pages or leave a note here and I'll add it. It would be better if the three pages were consistent in providing this data. Kalevala (talk) 21:55, 28 June 2014 (GMT)

Arrows stick into the soil after a few (ab. 5) metres!

I have equipped: Glass bow, Ebony arrows, Ebony helmet enchanted with Fortify archery. If I take it off, it causes my bow and arrows behave themselves properly. What's wrong? I use PS3. 37.21.1.149 23:51, 24 February 2015 (GMT)

Is someone there? 37.21.42.80 10:35, 3 March 2015 (GMT)

Arrows normally stick into the ground after a short flight in the game, what exactly is the problem? RIM (talk) 11:46, 3 March 2015 (GMT)

You kidding? The problem is you dont want to read my post attentively. 37.21.14.169 12:58, 5 March 2015 (GMT)

Hey, man, I need your help either way. 37.21.37.21 11:18, 7 March 2015 (GMT)

If you gave us a better idea of what exactly you need help with, you might be more likely to get an answer. From what you're describing, it sounds like your arrows behave properly both with and without enchantments. So what's your question? Zul do onikaan^{Laan tinvaak} 16:08, 7 March 2015 (GMT)

Do you mean that when you fire an arrow it just drops straight to the ground? If that's the case you have to hold the attack button for a bit longer to fully draw your bow and then release the shot. i.e: charge it up. RIM (talk) 16:13, 7 March 2015 (GMT)

Im quite sure of one thing: one of us is a complete idiot, I suppose, 'at's not me. «A few» means «small amount of» (recently I specified: «ab. 5»), also I said: «IF I TAKE IT ‹Ebony helmet enchanted with Fortify archery› OFF, it causes my bow and arrows behave themselves properly» That means, without the helmet my arrows fly much further away as usual. Of course, I drew my bow fully, captain. 37.21.5.185 00:07, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

But, as I noticed, even doffing enchanted Ebony helmet does not relieve always. 37.21.5.185 00:36, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

Calling people an idiot is not the best way to get your question answered, maybe if you wrote your question using better grammar and a better explanation it would be easier to answer. RIM (talk) 17:32, 8 March 2015 (GMT)

'At was just a supposition, dont mind. But I cant perceive: what else do you want to know? My arrows fly about 5 metres and then stick to the ground. Before I released my arrow, I'd drawn my bow fully. Whats incomprehensible for you? 37.21.38.59 09:08, 9 March 2015 (GMT)

'At was just a supposition, dont mind. But I cant perceive is one example. As for your question I'm not sure what's causing the glitch, if it's only your ebony helmet causing the problem then the best solution is probably just to get a different helmet. Sometimes when firing arrows they will glitch or act strangely, in my experience the best solution is to change items or bows. RIM (talk) 15:13, 9 March 2015 (GMT)

I hope this advice helps, sorry if it didn't. RIM (talk) 15:15, 9 March 2015 (GMT)

Anyway - thanks. 37.21.38.59 22:04, 9 March 2015 (GMT)

Equation Problem

There is a critical problem with the XP equation: nowhere in this wiki does the term "Damage Translator" seem to appear except on this page, and there is no explanation of what it means or how to derive it. Can anyone explain that? 24.255.217.175 04:30, 21 May 2015 (GMT)

Steady Hand Translation Problems

In some translations of Skyrim the perk description says that with Steady Hand 2/2 you have no stamina drain while zooming in.

In the german translation it says "Das Heranzoomen mit einem Bogen kostet keine Ausdauer und verlangsamt die Zeit um 50%" which would translate to "Zooming in with a bow doesn't cost stamina and slows time by 50%" — Unsigned comment by 31.150.216.212 (talk) at 00:43 on 30 May 2015‎

You're right. Noticeably, level 1 also states that it will drain only half Stamina. I've updated the page accordingly. – Robin Hood  ^(talk) 04:01, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Marksman glitch?

The word "MARKSMAN" appears in a blink-and-you'll-miss-it cameo when zooming out of a perk tree. Is this a glitch? DRAGON GUARD^(TALK) 18:37, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Arrow damage?

Can anyone tell me please how is the arrow damage calculated in the final damage? The 2 most possible cases are:

 1. [BowDamage * SkillLevelBonus * Perks * (1+Enchantments) * (1+Potions)] + ARROW DAMAGE

 2. (BowDamage + ARROW DAMAGE) * SkillLevelBonus * Perks * (1+Enchantments) * (1+Potions)

I don't know which one is true, please help.

Arrow/ledge bug

I don't know how to work this into the article mainly because I don't know what to cite or how much information UESP would require, but a while back, I confirmed the existence of a bug with archery. When you stand on a ledge and shoot downward over its edge, your arrow may occasionally teleport to your feet and impact the ledge you're standing on. I have a slow-motion video from about three years ago, which, though very poorly-filmed, shows the bug very clearly. It seems the article lists a similar bug with the VATS ("cinematic") camera, though the article is either referring to a separate bug or incorrectly blaming this bug on VATS.

After reverse-engineering this for a while, I found out why this bug occurs. When you fire an arrow, the arrow initially spawns at the WEAPON node in your character's animation skeleton. However, that node isn't physics-simulated: if you walk right up to a wall, your WEAPON node may be on the other side of the wall. To prevent you from shooting through walls, Bethesda does a raycast immediately after spawning your arrow: if there is any obstacle between your position and the WEAPON node, then the arrow teleports to that obstacle. The issue is that "your position" is, in this case, between your feet. If you are standing on a ledge and aiming downward over its edge, then a raycast from your feet to the space in front of your bow will hit the ground at your feet; the further back from the edge you are, the more ground there is for that raycast to hit. Thus, the arrow teleports backward from your bow and hits the ledge you're standing on.

Subroutine void Projectile::MoveToHitPositionIfAny(const NiPoint3& start, const NiPoint3& end) at 0x007A0090 (in Skyrim Classic) is provided with the two positions to raycast between; it performs the raycast and moves the projectile to the hit position, if there is a hit position. It has multiple callers including a call 0x2CF bytes into MissileProjectile::Subroutine0079AEA0 (according to my old notes that call can be found by digging down from ArrowProjectile::Unk_AB, which might be a frame handler).

I have a mod, "Cobb Bug Fixes," which patches the aforementioned MissileProjectile call to fix this issue: I move the raycast start position directly upward from the shooter's feet, so that we're performing the raycast roughly from the shooter's center-of-mass. Mod author aers has ported this fix in their "SSE Engine Fixes." I am aware that UESP will link to an article for the Unofficial Patch whenever a bug is resolved by that patch, but I don't know UESP's policy for other bugfix mods. Even if I knew I had enough UESP-suitable verification to include information on this bug in the article, I still wouldn't feel comfortable linking to my own work to fix it. It'd feel like a plug.

Gonna leave this information here for editors to do as they wish. I can provide transliterated assembly-to-C++ code for some of the relevant functions on request, but I don't have a full understanding of how the game handles projectiles; there's a reason two of the three subroutines I mentioned here don't have meaningful names. DavidJCobb (talk) 13:13, 18 March 2020 (GMT)

Incomplete gaining skill xp section

i just want to point out that the aforementioned section in the article is rather incomplete compared to the equivalent sections for Skyrim:One-handed#Gaining_Skill_XP, Skyrim:Two-handed#Gaining_Skill_XP and Skyrim:Destruction#Gaining_Skill_XP.

the reason why i deem it incomplete is that it lacks the relevant statements describing what is helpful and what is detrimental to leveling the skill and gaining skill xp. for example, from my own testing, i have also found that the overdraw perk, smithing, fortify archery enchantments and potions are detrimental to leveling much like in one-handed and two-handed. i.e. you gain less xp per enemy because they take fewer hits before dying. can any other elder scrolls archery veterans still playing this game confirm or disprove this?

another bug that i have found is that if you have any perk, potion or enchantment that increases bow damage, the displayed damage in the ui under inventory > weapons is calculated incorrectly. the actual damage dealt is actually much more. i used the "getav health" console command to check the enemy's health after each shot. i only tested on animals since they have no armor and thus no damage resist. i was using unenchanted bows and arrows and was alone attacking the target. no summons, animal companions or followers. i was also playing on adept difficulty thus no damage modifiers. everything does "standard damage" on adept according to the Skyrim:Damage#Difficulty_Level page.

it seems someone else also noticed this issue in the archive 3 page, section "1 formula" part of that page. see Skyrim_talk:Archery/Archive_3#Formula. someone with an ebony bow and arrow noticed he was doing 100 points in excess damage compared to his displayed damage in the inventory ui.

im not sure if this is a bug with the displayed damage or with the actual computational formula used in combat by the game. i recall they changed the way archery damage is calculated in a previous patch but forgot to update the formula used for displaying the damage in the ui, perhaps? once again, i need another elder scrolls archery veteran still playing this game to confirm or disprove this? im playing on skyrim le 1.9.32.0.8. ChaosLegionnaire (talk) 18:53, 26 September 2024 (UTC)